Shashka scabbard mountings suggestions?

erlikhan · 10th January 2005, 09:23 PM

I bought this shashka yesterday. Nice walrus hilt and hanging tool( or what it is called in English). Scabard mountings are lost. Any suggestion about the proper thing I must look for to restore it? Were they originally gold engraved iron perhaps?
http://www.pbase.com/erlik19/inbox

ariel · 11th January 2005, 01:31 AM

That's the first time I see walrus mounting!
Wild suggestion: how about walrus or ivory for the rest? Ot metal (silver?) with ivory plates on it?
Very, very nice one... Congratulations!
Any markings on the blade?

RSWORD · 11th January 2005, 02:32 AM

Very unusual to see a scabbard mount made of ivory! I doubt the top and bottom scabbard mount would also have been ivory but as Ariel suggests, perhaps silver with ivory plaques.

Yannis · 11th January 2005, 07:58 AM

For me also is the first time that I see an ivory mount. I wonder how strong can it be to hold the weight of the sword.

Is it possible to be holow with metal inside?

For the rest fittings I say ivory too, exept the top throat.

When you have the most difficult part of ivory, the rest that they have no presure, could be ivory too. A very strange scabbard indeed.

Rather · 11th January 2005, 10:42 AM

WOW – What a beauty! Congratulations, I envy you. I personally would use Ivory of the same colour for the missing parts. As one can only guess, what was originally used, I would restore it a way fitting to the style of the other parts.

Battara · 11th January 2005, 09:47 PM

Like Rsword, I would also suggest silver. It would compliment the ivory and be more traditional (not to mention a whole lot cheaper).

erlikhan · 11th January 2005, 10:08 PM

wow. is it really so interesting? thanks a lot. i was thinking of restoring it with low grade silver or brass cheaply and to resell as i paid something even less than that costs for the cheapest types of original kinjals. so perhaps i must consider its value on a different scale and keep it for myself after restoring it with walrus, as even just that bottom mounting alone would cost twice of the amount i gave for the sword itself, if made from walrus . Or original decorated silver mountings , if I can find a spare set in market,would be ok too. And the hanger loop is carved from single piece ivory .no metal inside.

Rivkin · 15th January 2005, 08:41 PM

It seems to be a rare example, I think that most post 1850 expensive shashkas would have silver niello, so it must be a very expensive shashka that is also probably old. Are there any marks on the blade ?

erlikhan · 20th January 2005, 11:02 PM

although steel quality is very high, no mark on the blade. not a rich sample unlike the scabbard and hilt for sure.
6504827069 . an ivory hilted shashka ended today. can anybody define the blade? is it too badly sharpened or what? machine made chrome plated? seemed strange to me.

Rivkin · 21st January 2005, 02:33 AM

.

Andrew · 21st January 2005, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Discussion of auctions should never include editorial comments about the seller. Please take those discussions to private e-mail.

Rivkin, please see: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4

Thanks.

Andrew

Rivkin · 21st January 2005, 03:02 AM

Yeap, sorry about that.

But I think that there is no other way to answer "why is this item looks suspicious".

Andrew · 21st January 2005, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivkin

Yeap, sorry about that.

But I think that there is no other way to answer "why is this item looks suspicious".

No worries.

The way to handle it is to discuss the item itself in an objective manner, and reserve editorial comments about sellers for PM or email.

tom hyle · 21st January 2005, 04:01 PM

This was not likely a particularly expensive/fancy sword when new. Note the plain-ness of the blade. Note it has the hollow-cheeked/quill-back profile of the "tribal" sabre, not the more Western-style crisp-fullered blades favoured by aristocrats. Note that the ivory is not in the least ornate, decorated or carved. This sword was probably dressed without access to a jeweller, probably due to extreme rurality, possibly extreme Northness. Note the absense, not only of metal sheath fittings, but of even the usual metal ferule/bolster on the sword itself. The walrus ivory, rather than a luxury, may have been somewhat a material of some convenience; perhaps it was available and horn or metal was not, perhaps it was preferred for its hardness. Unless you see any residue from metal oxides where they are missing, I see no reason to suspect the other scabbard mounts were any different from the one it still has. True, an upper suspension mount of ivory may not seem sufficient, but A/ not everything anyone does is (even vaguely) smart or ideal, B/ ivory in good shape is pretty strong, and C/ I've seen old pictures of 19th c. shahsh'shka (love the spelling?) worn thust through the sash, edge-up, their European sheath danglers relegated to a decorative role (well, they do actually keep it from sliding out your belt pretty well.). The only other thing I'll mention is the connection of walri, and of ivory working among Northern peoples, to The Sea.
This is the first time the pictures have worked for me. Nice looking sword. Sounds like you got a very good buy, too.

tom hyle · 21st January 2005, 10:25 PM

sheath mountings and ferules of ivory, bone, and horn are common on Indonesian work, and are sometimes seen elsewhere. I might suggest bone (for the throat piece) and/or antler as readily affordable alternatives to ivory which can very closely match its appearance, without any desire to fool Sherlock Holmes about it.

10th January 2005, 09:23 PM	#1
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Shashka scabbard mountings suggestions? I bought this shashka yesterday. Nice walrus hilt and hanging tool( or what it is called in English). Scabard mountings are lost. Any suggestion about the proper thing I must look for to restore it? Were they originally gold engraved iron perhaps? http://www.pbase.com/erlik19/inbox

11th January 2005, 10:08 PM	#7
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	wow. is it really so interesting? thanks a lot. i was thinking of restoring it with low grade silver or brass cheaply and to resell as i paid something even less than that costs for the cheapest types of original kinjals. so perhaps i must consider its value on a different scale and keep it for myself after restoring it with walrus, as even just that bottom mounting alone would cost twice of the amount i gave for the sword itself, if made from walrus . Or original decorated silver mountings , if I can find a spare set in market,would be ok too. And the hanger loop is carved from single piece ivory .no metal inside. Last edited by erlikhan; 11th January 2005 at 11:04 PM.

21st January 2005, 02:33 AM	#10
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	. Last edited by Andrew; 21st January 2005 at 02:40 AM. Reason: Forum Policy

11th January 2005, 01:31 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	That's the first time I see walrus mounting! Wild suggestion: how about walrus or ivory for the rest? Ot metal (silver?) with ivory plates on it? Very, very nice one... Congratulations! Any markings on the blade?

11th January 2005, 02:32 AM	#3
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Very unusual to see a scabbard mount made of ivory! I doubt the top and bottom scabbard mount would also have been ivory but as Ariel suggests, perhaps silver with ivory plaques.

11th January 2005, 07:58 AM	#4
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	For me also is the first time that I see an ivory mount. I wonder how strong can it be to hold the weight of the sword. Is it possible to be holow with metal inside? For the rest fittings I say ivory too, exept the top throat. When you have the most difficult part of ivory, the rest that they have no presure, could be ivory too. A very strange scabbard indeed.

11th January 2005, 10:42 AM	#5
Rather Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 72	WOW – What a beauty! Congratulations, I envy you. I personally would use Ivory of the same colour for the missing parts. As one can only guess, what was originally used, I would restore it a way fitting to the style of the other parts.

11th January 2005, 09:47 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Like Rsword, I would also suggest silver. It would compliment the ivory and be more traditional (not to mention a whole lot cheaper).

15th January 2005, 08:41 PM	#8
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	It seems to be a rare example, I think that most post 1850 expensive shashkas would have silver niello, so it must be a very expensive shashka that is also probably old. Are there any marks on the blade ?

20th January 2005, 11:02 PM	#9
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	although steel quality is very high, no mark on the blade. not a rich sample unlike the scabbard and hilt for sure. 6504827069 . an ivory hilted shashka ended today. can anybody define the blade? is it too badly sharpened or what? machine made chrome plated? seemed strange to me.

21st January 2005, 03:02 AM	#12
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Yeap, sorry about that. But I think that there is no other way to answer "why is this item looks suspicious".

21st January 2005, 04:01 PM	#14
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	This was not likely a particularly expensive/fancy sword when new. Note the plain-ness of the blade. Note it has the hollow-cheeked/quill-back profile of the "tribal" sabre, not the more Western-style crisp-fullered blades favoured by aristocrats. Note that the ivory is not in the least ornate, decorated or carved. This sword was probably dressed without access to a jeweller, probably due to extreme rurality, possibly extreme Northness. Note the absense, not only of metal sheath fittings, but of even the usual metal ferule/bolster on the sword itself. The walrus ivory, rather than a luxury, may have been somewhat a material of some convenience; perhaps it was available and horn or metal was not, perhaps it was preferred for its hardness. Unless you see any residue from metal oxides where they are missing, I see no reason to suspect the other scabbard mounts were any different from the one it still has. True, an upper suspension mount of ivory may not seem sufficient, but A/ not everything anyone does is (even vaguely) smart or ideal, B/ ivory in good shape is pretty strong, and C/ I've seen old pictures of 19th c. shahsh'shka (love the spelling?) worn thust through the sash, edge-up, their European sheath danglers relegated to a decorative role (well, they do actually keep it from sliding out your belt pretty well.). The only other thing I'll mention is the connection of walri, and of ivory working among Northern peoples, to The Sea. This is the first time the pictures have worked for me. Nice looking sword. Sounds like you got a very good buy, too.

21st January 2005, 10:25 PM	#15
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	sheath mountings and ferules of ivory, bone, and horn are common on Indonesian work, and are sometimes seen elsewhere. I might suggest bone (for the throat piece) and/or antler as readily affordable alternatives to ivory which can very closely match its appearance, without any desire to fool Sherlock Holmes about it.