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Old 7th September 2010, 01:39 PM   #1
Antique Arsenal
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Default Please Help Me to Identify this Trenching Club

Hi Everyone,
just recently I bought this item and I think that it is a trenching club of WWI period. At first I thought that it has German origin because of its shape but now I am not sure. On the leather strip fixed to the handle there is a name “EL CID” which is a Spanish national hero who lived in 11th century. That could mean that there was a military formation that had this name or it is a name of the person who owned it. This confused me even more because neither Spain nor Portuguese participated in WWI. As far as I know they remained neutral. I hope you can help me out with this one.

Thanks,
Aleks
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Old 8th September 2010, 05:55 PM   #2
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I've seen trench clubs with provenance from the Western Front battlefields , now on display in the Australian War Memorial, where the hob-nails of boots have been used for spikes, others wrapped with barb wire, nails and cartridges hammered in to make spikes. Most look crude, but effective bludgeons for trench raids, made in the muddy confines of the trenches. The example you have in the picture may well be authentic, but it looks a bit too neat for a battlefield relic somehow. What are the spikes made of?

interesting topic by the way!

Cheers, Bryan.
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Old 8th September 2010, 10:00 PM   #3
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How do the dimensions compare with this current production item, which looks similar to your club?
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Old 10th September 2010, 06:20 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan.H
I've seen trench clubs with provenance from the Western Front battlefields , now on display in the Australian War Memorial, where the hob-nails of boots have been used for spikes, others wrapped with barb wire, nails and cartridges hammered in to make spikes. Most look crude, but effective bludgeons for trench raids, made in the muddy confines of the trenches. The example you have in the picture may well be authentic, but it looks a bit too neat for a battlefield relic somehow. What are the spikes made of?

interesting topic by the way!

Cheers, Bryan.


Hi Bryan,
I did open a discussion called “maces clubs and other” in Ethnographic Arms Forum. I did mention trenching clubs there but nobody gave me any good answers regarding this exqample. Although, one of the members gave a nice illustration several WWI trenching maces and clubs w one of them had very similar spikes on it. Tell you the truth I am not sure what the spikes are made of on my mace.
Thanks,
Aleks
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Old 10th September 2010, 06:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berkley
How do the dimensions compare with this current production item, which looks similar to your club?


Hi Berkley,
I am kind of disappointed to see this illustration. I have to admit that it does greatly resemble my club. I will take the measurement as soon as I come back home.
Thanks,
Aleks

Last edited by Antique Arsenal : 10th September 2010 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 10th September 2010, 09:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan.H
I've seen trench clubs with provenance from the Western Front battlefields , now on display in the Australian War Memorial, where the hob-nails of boots have been used for spikes, others wrapped with barb wire, nails and cartridges hammered in to make spikes. Most look crude, but effective bludgeons for trench raids, made in the muddy confines of the trenches. The example you have in the picture may well be authentic, but it looks a bit too neat for a battlefield relic somehow. What are the spikes made of?

interesting topic by the way!

Cheers, Bryan.


Bryan I also wanted to note that tranche percussion weapons were not only manufactured in closest settlements and the tranches themselves but also in countries like Grate Brittan Germany. They were actually manufacturing trench clubs and maces in factories. That is why when I have seen the club for the first time I did not think that it is too neat. I will post some some pictures latter on .
Thanks,
Aleks
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Old 14th September 2010, 03:48 PM   #7
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I have seen maces brought back from Spain as souvenirs.

Portugal did take part in WWI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_in_World_War_I
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Old 14th September 2010, 04:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen wood
... Portugal did take part in WWI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_in_World_War_I


Good Stephen,
You were faster than me .
Over a thousand Portuguese died in La Liz, for example.

.
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Old 15th September 2010, 06:42 PM   #9
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...bravo.

The Portuguese issue helmet is interesting http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/portugal/por16.htm ... http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=99337

...said, on the one hand to be based upon a private purchase British officers' model (they were made in the UK), on the other to have derived from a medieval type (?) http://reference.findtarget.com/sea...0of%20Portugal/
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Old 18th September 2010, 11:57 AM   #10
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A couple of trench clubs top one is Brit private purchase springy one German.
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Old 20th September 2010, 02:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berkley
How do the dimensions compare with this current production item, which looks similar to your club?


Sorry that I am replying only now. I was out of the city for a week. The club itself measures 23”. That is from the bottom of the top spike to the bottom of the handle. Does it necessary mean that the mace is a reproduction?? Also, what do you or anybody else think about the decorations on the handle and the leather strip with “EL CID” wring on it? Could it be an identification of its authenticity??

Thanks,
Aleks
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Old 20th September 2010, 02:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen wood
I have seen maces brought back from Spain as souvenirs.

Portugal did take part in WWI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_in_World_War_I


Thank you very much for this note. I should have known better and done a better research.
Thanks,
Aleks
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Old 20th September 2010, 06:06 PM   #13
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Hi everyone I just wanted to post one of the pictures I have of WWI Austrian Club. If you want to I can provide the translation of the text below latter on.
Thanks,
Aleks
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Old 20th September 2010, 07:39 PM   #14
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An Austrian Mace. Austrian Arch-Duke Eugene confessed that his troops on the Italian Front contain special detachments, armed with the special maces (clubs with sharp nails) for the purpose of finishing off Italian soldiers who are discovered to be in a lethargic state, after being poisoned by gas. Famous British journalist Lord Northcliffe, the publisher of the Times, who visited Goritza immediately after it was taken by the Italians, saw these maces, captured from the Austrians.

The Austrian club is pictured atop the Saxon pickelhaube. Good enough for the Russian WWI propaganda, I guess.
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Old 20th September 2010, 08:08 PM   #15
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O.K. guys,
Sorry for the lack of diplomacy .
Now that we all have woven multiple considerations on Aleck's club, as well as other (almost) contemporaneous specimens, shouldn't we go back to items more within the scope of this forum, on what concerns, for example, antiquity?
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Old 20th September 2010, 10:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graeme gt
A couple of trench clubs top one is Brit private purchase springy one German.


I'm a little curious about this thing the Germans have with spring clubs. A long while ago, a friend purchased a replica spring baton to see how it worked, and the best we could tell is that it didn't hit as hard as did a solid rod. The spring bent to absorb the impact.

How old is this idea? Is it just some sort of souped up black jack?

Best,

F
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Old 21st September 2010, 12:48 PM   #17
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Dont know if its as good or worse than a solid rod but it would be very effective (OUCH).I think this is Austrian.
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Old 21st September 2010, 01:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fearn
I'm a little curious about this thing the Germans have with spring clubs. A long while ago, a friend purchased a replica spring baton to see how it worked, and the best we could tell is that it didn't hit as hard as did a solid rod. The spring bent to absorb the impact.

How old is this idea? Is it just some sort of souped up black jack?

Best,

F


I am just speculating here but I think that when solid rod is used it would transfer a good amount of force to the arm of person who is holding the club. That would cause him to get tired faster or even damage his own arm. At the same time the spring club would absorb a good amount of that “reflected” force causing it to be more easily operated. Even though the a spring club would not cause as much impact as solid one it still would be more than enough to cause a fatal damage.
Thanks,
Aleks
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