My first Keris

Valjhun · 11th February 2006, 04:31 PM

I'm not exactly a keris person, actually I do not know almost anything about indonesian weapons, however visiting that wonderful forum I came to like them. So I decided to buy a couple of kerisess and here is the first one. What can you expert guys tell me about it? Age, Origin, ecc. Anything would help. Thanks!

nechesh · 11th February 2006, 10:51 PM

Nice first keris. An oldie and a goodie. Nice, well formed ricikan (carved features). Surakarta dress. Can you do some close-up? It reminds me quite a lot of my first one in many ways. Just a warning. They are addicting.

Henk · 12th February 2006, 08:13 AM

Lovely 13 luk keris from Solo, Surakarta. For a starter this is a very good keris.
This keris is called a keris bolong. Bolong is refering to the holes in the sogokan. It is said that when the owner is looking through the holes to a woman he wants, he will get her.

Happy hunting

simatua · 12th February 2006, 08:47 AM

A nice old keris, indeed in a Solo dress. This kind of shape (dapur) with 13 luk was very popular with Maduranese soldiers in service of Solonese army.
So many times we can see a blade made in Madura. The name of the dapur is Parungsari or Sangelat, which depends on a little difference ; If it has 1 or Djalu memet: 1= Parungsari or 2= Sangkelat

sorry cannot translate djalu memet, but i will try make it clear with a photo
example a parungsari:

simatua · 12th February 2006, 09:33 AM

example:

nechesh · 12th February 2006, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

Lovely 13 luk keris from Solo, Surakarta. For a starter this is a very good keris.
This keris is called a keris bolong. Bolong is refering to the holes in the sogokan. It is said that when the owner is looking through the holes to a woman he wants, he will get her.

Happy hunting

There has been some serious debate as to whether or not this is "true" bolong (also seen spelled combong and complong). Some will insist that real bolong exist only when it was there from the start as a feature created by the empu. I have seen such keris, though they are somewhat rare. I have heard it argued that calling this bolong it merely an attempt to place a higher spiritual value on what is ultimately a defect in the keris making revealed through years of acidic etching. IMO though, i think when a blade has lasted this long and received constant attention (i.e. washing) that it does deservre some added respect. But i wouldn't set your wedding date yet.

The bit of metal stuck in the hole is curious and interesting. Any idea of it's actual composition? I could, as suggested, be a way of honoring the keris. The idea of a repair seems unlikely to me because i would expect it to fill the entire hole and probably both.
The mendak looks pretty old and tired and has lost all it's stones . You might want to further honor the keris by replacing it with a new one. Nice quality mendaks are available at relatively resonable prices. (see the mendak on simatau's keris).
BTW Martin, why do you think this one is Madurese? And where does your information about Madurese soldiers preferring 13 luk blades come from. I have never read that.

simatua · 12th February 2006, 03:09 PM

You'r right about the mendak nechesh, I did put on a new one because there was no mendak at all.
personally i preffer an old one, even with some damage or stones etc missing than a fancy new mendak.
taste is different. About the info...I look it up and come back.

Nechesch can you show us a photo of your keris with the forged bolong?
thanks

Henk · 12th February 2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

The bit of metal stuck in the hole is curious and interesting. Any idea of it's actual composition? I could, as suggested, be a way of honoring the keris. The idea of a repair seems unlikely to me because i would expect it to fill the entire hole and probably both.

BTW Martin, why do you think this one is Madurese? And where does your information about Madurese soldiers preferring 13 luk blades come from. I have never read that.

The piece of metal in the hole is not a piece of nickle that resisted the etching. Not a strange thought because the iron of the blade is eaten away while the nickle resists the etching. It is added later and in my opinion you should remove it. IMHO it is not something to honor the keris. By honoring the keris I'm sure something more valueable would be added.

That madurese soldiers prefered 13 luk blades is also new for me. I'm very curious to hear where you got that information.

simatua · 13th February 2006, 07:22 PM

To Nechesh, Henk and all other keris lovers/colectors.
first of all its good to have some criticism and have questions if someone makes a statement or say something about kerises.

There are many articles and books written about kerises, but as we say in the Netherlands "not everything cuts wood" many things written do not have a good source and opinions of several writers are different.

this forum is ment to have fun and learn from eachother, although for me.
to stick to the true, is imo important.
The statement i put on " that madures soldiers preffer 13 luk blades" i cannot build upon a fundation found in - a to my eyes - reliable source.

seeing this blade;looking at the pamor, it gave me the idea that it came from Madura.i m a keris colllector/learner for about 10 yrs, and from the things i have seen and compared i still think it is...other opinions are more than welcome, after all this is a discussion forum.

That many kerises from madura can be found in a Surakarta dress, comes true the fact that after the Java war(1825-1830) many soldiers were permantly quartered in the so called "Land of the princes" Solo/Dyogya.

maybe i'dd mixed some things up..hope to straiten it by this.

Valjhun · 12th February 2006, 10:25 AM

Gentlemen, thank you all for your help!

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

Just a warning. They are addicting.

Nechesh, I bet it, as soon I have recived it, I needed at least one more...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

Bolong is refering to the holes in the sogokan. It is said that when the owner is looking through the holes to a woman he wants, he will get her.

Happy hunting

What a coincidence, just the one I needed

Ehm,... Would be just looking to the foto of her enough? I really do not want to scare her....

Here are some aditional immages. Simatua, a Sangkelat, I guess? What is the meaning/purpose of that bright metal insert in the Bolong?

simatua · 12th February 2006, 11:30 AM

a sangelat indeed, it has a double djalu memet.
I Dont know exactly what the bright metal insert the bolong means.
I know that manytimes often through the many washings due to the "hormat" = honour given at the keris. The keris gets this bolong at the thinnest places first.
in my opinion there some possibilities:
1. It was there all the time , only this piece of metal (nickel) was more resistent to the arsenic then normal iron, and still stucked there

2.The owner attatched a high value at this keris. rapairing the(starting) bolong with strange iron different than the keris is "not done" , so the reapairing was done with a different metal. Sometimes you see reparations on old kerise done with gold.

3. Its inserted to give more powers at the powers already existed.
in this case i would certainly take this keris to the disco...

....i hope the kerisexperts/lovers can tell more about it

ariel · 12th February 2006, 06:10 PM

I guess Valjhun owes this Forum a complete account of the consequences of his trip to the singles bar.
If he reports a success, I am screwing a hole in one of my krises

nechesh · 12th February 2006, 06:14 PM

Martin, the keris with the forged bolong was not mine. I will see if i can obtain any photos of it.
Personally, i like older mendaks as well, but not if they have considerable damage or loss. For me it is a gesture to the spirit of the keris to dress it appropriately.

Ria · 16th March 2006, 02:59 AM

Hi all,

Regarding the bright metal which has been inserted to the blade, I have one example of it. Refer attached photo, the metal is near to the gonjo. Earlier, I did not realized it, but then, while cleaning the blade, the metal appeared immediately and it become much more brighter. Any opinion, wether the metal has been added later by the previous owner by purposed?

Regards,

Valjhun · 17th March 2006, 04:39 PM

Nechesh and the others, thank you for your kindess.

But how old is my second keris?

Nechnes, yes I'm trying to avoid thoose new kerises

nechesh · 17th March 2006, 05:30 PM

Valjhun, for me the trick isn't to necessarily avoid new keris, just to know what they are when you buy them. I also prefer the older blades, but i have a couple of beautiful modern examples as well and i think it is a good thing to encourage the continuence of the art.

As we have discussed before, dating keris is a tricky thing even with the blade in hand and much harder to do just from photos, even for the well trained experts. Often enough even experts will disagree about the tangguh of a keris and really such dating can only be taken as an estimate. So i am going to avoid making a fool of myself by even guessing on your blade.

I do look foward to seeing your third one when it arrives.

Valjhun · 18th March 2006, 09:31 AM

And here si my third one (and a the last one for some time, I have to study a couple of books about them first, yes I felt into

)...

Balinese this time. I can say only that is vewrry beautiful, nice selut, nice mendak, great ukiran with magnificent patra, pendok damaged, wrangka from verry heavy hardwood. As usually there si questions:

- Type of keris?
- Type of pamor and what brings?
- Who's that angry guy on the ukiran?

Alam Shah · 18th March 2006, 11:21 AM

This is a Balinese keris with 7 Luks.
Balinese Hilt (also known as danganan) is in the form of Bima.
Probably made from ebony wood.

Sheath is in the Balinese ladrang form.
Blade needs cleaning (obviously

).
Pamor is Ngulit Semangko (watermelon skin). It is said to enhance the owner’s material well being. Interesting abstract patterns at the sorsoran area.

11th February 2006, 04:31 PM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	My first Keris I'm not exactly a keris person, actually I do not know almost anything about indonesian weapons, however visiting that wonderful forum I came to like them. So I decided to buy a couple of kerisess and here is the first one. What can you expert guys tell me about it? Age, Origin, ecc. Anything would help. Thanks! Attached Images

12th February 2006, 09:33 AM	#5
simatua Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 69	parungsari example: Attached Images

12th February 2006, 03:09 PM	#7
simatua Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 69	replacing the mendak You'r right about the mendak nechesh, I did put on a new one because there was no mendak at all. personally i preffer an old one, even with some damage or stones etc missing than a fancy new mendak. taste is different. About the info...I look it up and come back. Nechesch can you show us a photo of your keris with the forged bolong? thanks

13th February 2006, 07:22 PM	#9
simatua Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 69	criticism is good To Nechesh, Henk and all other keris lovers/colectors. first of all its good to have some criticism and have questions if someone makes a statement or say something about kerises. There are many articles and books written about kerises, but as we say in the Netherlands "not everything cuts wood" many things written do not have a good source and opinions of several writers are different. this forum is ment to have fun and learn from eachother, although for me. to stick to the true, is imo important. The statement i put on " that madures soldiers preffer 13 luk blades" i cannot build upon a fundation found in - a to my eyes - reliable source. seeing this blade;looking at the pamor, it gave me the idea that it came from Madura.i m a keris colllector/learner for about 10 yrs, and from the things i have seen and compared i still think it is...other opinions are more than welcome, after all this is a discussion forum. That many kerises from madura can be found in a Surakarta dress, comes true the fact that after the Java war(1825-1830) many soldiers were permantly quartered in the so called "Land of the princes" Solo/Dyogya. maybe i'dd mixed some things up..hope to straiten it by this.

16th March 2006, 02:59 AM	#14
Ria Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 14	Bright Metal Hi all, Regarding the bright metal which has been inserted to the blade, I have one example of it. Refer attached photo, the metal is near to the gonjo. Earlier, I did not realized it, but then, while cleaning the blade, the metal appeared immediately and it become much more brighter. Any opinion, wether the metal has been added later by the previous owner by purposed? Regards, Attached Images

11th February 2006, 10:51 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Nice first keris. An oldie and a goodie. Nice, well formed ricikan (carved features). Surakarta dress. Can you do some close-up? It reminds me quite a lot of my first one in many ways. Just a warning. They are addicting.

12th February 2006, 08:13 AM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Lovely 13 luk keris from Solo, Surakarta. For a starter this is a very good keris. This keris is called a keris bolong. Bolong is refering to the holes in the sogokan. It is said that when the owner is looking through the holes to a woman he wants, he will get her. Happy hunting

12th February 2006, 08:47 AM	#4
simatua Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 69	A nice old keris, indeed in a Solo dress. This kind of shape (dapur) with 13 luk was very popular with Maduranese soldiers in service of Solonese army. So many times we can see a blade made in Madura. The name of the dapur is Parungsari or Sangelat, which depends on a little difference ; If it has 1 or Djalu memet: 1= Parungsari or 2= Sangkelat sorry cannot translate djalu memet, but i will try make it clear with a photo example a parungsari:

12th February 2006, 11:30 AM	#11
simatua Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 69	a sangelat indeed, it has a double djalu memet. I Dont know exactly what the bright metal insert the bolong means. I know that manytimes often through the many washings due to the "hormat" = honour given at the keris. The keris gets this bolong at the thinnest places first. in my opinion there some possibilities: 1. It was there all the time , only this piece of metal (nickel) was more resistent to the arsenic then normal iron, and still stucked there 2.The owner attatched a high value at this keris. rapairing the(starting) bolong with strange iron different than the keris is "not done" , so the reapairing was done with a different metal. Sometimes you see reparations on old kerise done with gold. 3. Its inserted to give more powers at the powers already existed. in this case i would certainly take this keris to the disco... ....i hope the kerisexperts/lovers can tell more about it

12th February 2006, 06:10 PM	#12
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I guess Valjhun owes this Forum a complete account of the consequences of his trip to the singles bar. If he reports a success, I am screwing a hole in one of my krises

12th February 2006, 06:14 PM	#13
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Martin, the keris with the forged bolong was not mine. I will see if i can obtain any photos of it. Personally, i like older mendaks as well, but not if they have considerable damage or loss. For me it is a gesture to the spirit of the keris to dress it appropriately.

17th March 2006, 04:39 PM	#15
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Nechesh and the others, thank you for your kindess. But how old is my second keris? Nechnes, yes I'm trying to avoid thoose new kerises

17th March 2006, 05:30 PM	#16
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Valjhun, for me the trick isn't to necessarily avoid new keris, just to know what they are when you buy them. I also prefer the older blades, but i have a couple of beautiful modern examples as well and i think it is a good thing to encourage the continuence of the art. As we have discussed before, dating keris is a tricky thing even with the blade in hand and much harder to do just from photos, even for the well trained experts. Often enough even experts will disagree about the tangguh of a keris and really such dating can only be taken as an estimate. So i am going to avoid making a fool of myself by even guessing on your blade. I do look foward to seeing your third one when it arrives.

18th March 2006, 09:31 AM	#17
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	And here si my third one (and a the last one for some time, I have to study a couple of books about them first, yes I felt into )... Balinese this time. I can say only that is vewrry beautiful, nice selut, nice mendak, great ukiran with magnificent patra, pendok damaged, wrangka from verry heavy hardwood. As usually there si questions: - Type of keris? - Type of pamor and what brings? - Who's that angry guy on the ukiran? Attached Images

18th March 2006, 11:21 AM	#18
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	This is a Balinese keris with 7 Luks. Balinese Hilt (also known as danganan) is in the form of Bima. Probably made from ebony wood. Sheath is in the Balinese ladrang form. Blade needs cleaning (obviously ). Pamor is Ngulit Semangko (watermelon skin). It is said to enhance the owner’s material well being. Interesting abstract patterns at the sorsoran area. Last edited by Alam Shah; 18th March 2006 at 01:07 PM. Reason: added more info...