LET'S TALK ABOUT SWORDS ... LOOK HERE

fernando · 21st September 2008, 01:04 PM

Isn't this a nice charming piece ? ... sorry for the lack of modesty

An XVIII century Spanish colonial cavalry officer sword ( for Mexico?).
Blade 76 cms ( once shortened?); most probably of German origin.
The guard details would resemble the 1728 pattern for the Dragoons.
Although not much usual, the BBS marks on one side of the blade could be regimental. The marks on the other side appear impossible to decipher or even discern.
Well, a couple uncertainties on its ID and details, but that's as far as you can get with these things

.
... However allways expecting someone to come by and dissolve some of the uncertainties ... which we adore and thank a lot.
For example, i don't think i ever had Marc's impression on it

.
Are you there Marc ?

.
Fernando
.

Jim McDougall · 22nd September 2008, 07:45 AM

I distinctly remember this beauty Fernando! It seems that the general consensus was that it was indeed Spanish Colonial and likely for an officer of cavalry or dragoons in the 18th century. I believe another reference was made to the scalloped guard being associated with Spanish colonial swords. The blade is of course German, as was typically the case in that period and into the 19th c.
What is puzzling, as you note, is the curious BB marking on the blade. I am hoping that perhaps some of the members also keen on the swords of Mexico and Spain might associate those initials with something such as regimental or symbolic.

I'm glad you reposted this one here Fernando, and I'm hoping that we might have some luck in getting a bit further on identification.
As always.....more research !!!

All the best,
Jim

Marc · 22nd September 2008, 11:07 AM

A quick chime in, damn busy those days...

Hi, Fernando. Funny, I discussed this piece with SOMEBODY in February 2008. I would have bet money it was you, but my mind is starting to play tricks on me...
Anyway, it's indeed Spanish colonial, I've never have seen them attributed specifically to Mexico, nor seen any with a mark that could make me think they could be, but, of course, I'm limited to my own experience

Those are XVIII c. and for use by cavalry and/or dragoons. The guard is a variation of the Spanish 1728 pattern for cavalry. No idea about the marks, though, I'm afraid.
A beautiful exemplar, though, if I may say so

Best,

Marc

fernando · 22nd September 2008, 01:03 PM

Hi Marc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc

... Funny, I discussed this piece with SOMEBODY in February 2008. I would have bet money it was you ...

My deepest apologies

.
I had checked my files on the material i had on this piece, but i have failed to see who wrote the postings on the previous thread i have opened in the ethnographic Forum.
So sorry you had to repeat yourself

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc

Anyway, it's indeed Spanish colonial, I've never have seen them attributed specifically to Mexico

I take note; however this was sugested as being a possibility, not a certainty ... for what it is worth.

Thanks for the 'new release'.
Fernando

Marc · 23rd September 2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi Marc

My deepest apologies

.
I had checked my files on the material i had on this piece, but i have failed to see who wrote the postings on the previous thread i have opened in the ethnographic Forum.
So sorry you had to repeat yourself

.

Oh, yes, sure, I'll never, EVER, forgive you for making me to look again to this fantastically well-preserved exemplar of Spanish colonial cavalry sword! The annoyance! The pain! The horror!

fernando · 23rd September 2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc

Oh, yes, sure, I'll never, EVER, forgive you for making me to look again to this fantastically well-preserved exemplar of Spanish colonial cavalry sword! The annoyance! The pain! The horror!

Atlantia · 23rd September 2008, 08:16 PM

Thats a a beauty Fernando.

I love the way the simple steel guard bars have been adorned with brass/bronze 'beads'.
I love 'working' swords. I bet that when it was new, the contrast between the gold and silver of the guard with the rich brown of the wood would have looked very fine indeed
As of course it still does now. A fine fighting sword indeed!

Regards
Gene

fernando · 23rd September 2008, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Thats a a beauty Fernando.

I love the way the simple steel guard bars have been adorned with brass/bronze 'beads'.
I love 'working' swords. I bet that when it was new, the contrast between the gold and silver of the guard with the rich brown of the wood would have looked very fine indeed
As of course it still does now. A fine fighting sword indeed!

Regards
Gene

Thank you for the very nice words, old chum

Like music for my ears

.

Fernando

21st September 2008, 01:04 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	LET'S TALK ABOUT SWORDS ... LOOK HERE Isn't this a nice charming piece ? ... sorry for the lack of modesty An XVIII century Spanish colonial cavalry officer sword ( for Mexico?). Blade 76 cms ( once shortened?); most probably of German origin. The guard details would resemble the 1728 pattern for the Dragoons. Although not much usual, the BBS marks on one side of the blade could be regimental. The marks on the other side appear impossible to decipher or even discern. Well, a couple uncertainties on its ID and details, but that's as far as you can get with these things . ... However allways expecting someone to come by and dissolve some of the uncertainties ... which we adore and thank a lot. For example, i don't think i ever had Marc's impression on it . Are you there Marc ? . Fernando . Attached Images

22nd September 2008, 07:45 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,748	I distinctly remember this beauty Fernando! It seems that the general consensus was that it was indeed Spanish Colonial and likely for an officer of cavalry or dragoons in the 18th century. I believe another reference was made to the scalloped guard being associated with Spanish colonial swords. The blade is of course German, as was typically the case in that period and into the 19th c. What is puzzling, as you note, is the curious BB marking on the blade. I am hoping that perhaps some of the members also keen on the swords of Mexico and Spain might associate those initials with something such as regimental or symbolic. I'm glad you reposted this one here Fernando, and I'm hoping that we might have some luck in getting a bit further on identification. As always.....more research !!! All the best, Jim

22nd September 2008, 11:07 AM	#3
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	A quick chime in, damn busy those days... Hi, Fernando. Funny, I discussed this piece with SOMEBODY in February 2008. I would have bet money it was you, but my mind is starting to play tricks on me... Anyway, it's indeed Spanish colonial, I've never have seen them attributed specifically to Mexico, nor seen any with a mark that could make me think they could be, but, of course, I'm limited to my own experience Those are XVIII c. and for use by cavalry and/or dragoons. The guard is a variation of the Spanish 1728 pattern for cavalry. No idea about the marks, though, I'm afraid. A beautiful exemplar, though, if I may say so Best, Marc

23rd September 2008, 08:16 PM	#7
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Thats a a beauty Fernando. I love the way the simple steel guard bars have been adorned with brass/bronze 'beads'. I love 'working' swords. I bet that when it was new, the contrast between the gold and silver of the guard with the rich brown of the wood would have looked very fine indeed As of course it still does now. A fine fighting sword indeed! Regards Gene