Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 24th September 2008, 03:08 AM   #1
celtan
Member
 
celtan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: PR, USA
Posts: 679
Default Please help ID mid-19th C. saber

Any ideas? Doesn't seem to have any marks.













celtan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2008, 03:51 AM   #2
chevalier
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 119
Default

im going to take a stab in the dark and say its french (or perhaps american)
chevalier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2008, 03:07 PM   #3
celtan
Member
 
celtan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: PR, USA
Posts: 679
Default

It was ID'ed as a French 1798, which it clearly isn't. This looks like a mid 19th C. blade. The crux of the matter, seems to me, lies in the strangely shaped pommel.
celtan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2008, 05:51 PM   #4
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 6,645
Default

I agree with Manuel, the blade is typical mid 19th century cavalry sabre form as produced in Solingen (very much like that of the US M1840 "Old Wristbreaker"). Interestly, when that pattern was proposed, many of the first examples issued were Solingen products until Ames Sword Co. got production going.
As Chevalier has noted, the style of the hilt suggests American officers swords such as the M1852, and many. American military swords of the 19th century followed French patterns.
The deeply canted pommel and the scabbard with single carrying ring, as well as the blade being of the Solingen form mentioned, in addition to the heavy bullion sword knot all together suggest to me this might be German. I dont have Bezdek or some of the references at hand to confirm that but hopefully someone out there in 'ID' land does
If not German, possibly made there for export?
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2008, 07:27 PM   #5
Henk
Member
 
Henk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,172
Default

I found a similar sabre in "Swords in colour" by Robert Wilkinson-Latham.
The description is: Russia, Sabre of the infanterie, model 1865.
Typical is the strong bended end of the hilt, found on German and Russian sabres.
Henk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2008, 10:30 PM   #6
celtan
Member
 
celtan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: PR, USA
Posts: 679
Default

Hi Guys,

Was the pommel identical to the one on this example?

Today, while browsing through the Old Swords Database, I was able to find a virtually identical sword, although in much better shape. They IDed same as a a Dutch M1852 Infantry saber.


This is their data:

http://www.oldswords.com/database/viewItem.php?id=9250

WHITE METAL HILT WITH FLORAL DECORATION CRACK TO POMMEL CURVED BLADE BY HORSTER, RIBBED HORN GRIP WITH WIRE BINDING WITH ITS BULLION KNOT.

Further information provided:

This particular saber was instituted in 1852 for all officers of Infantry / militia / rifle corps (jagers), to replace the former model 1820 epee general model, and as off the 1860s to marines.

Original for infantery officers, the hilt was copper and for militia in silver.

Officers of the riflecorps wore the same as infantry, however the hilt was gold plated and the blade highly decorated. These saber types are still in ceremonial use in changed design.

From 1852 1880, the scabbard had two rings, afterwards the bottom rings was cancelled for ALL swords (excl some generals).

The sword was replaced in 1895, except for the riflecorps and initially militia (abandoned 1907).

Details
Nation Dutch
Arm Infantry
Model 1852
Hilt Type Single
Pommel Ball
Blade 1 Fuller
Circa 1852 to 1895
celtan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:49 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.