Kris Moro for coments

mariusgmioc · 30th October 2016, 08:46 PM

I recently received my first Kris Moro straight from the Philipines.

As I am new to this type of Kris, any comments are welcomed.

Sajen · 30th October 2016, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I recently received my first Kris Moro straight from the Philipines.

As I am new to this type of Kris, any comments are welcomed.

Hi Marius,

beautiful kris from the 19th century, nearly can't believe that you get it from the Philippines. The scabbard seems to be much younger as the blade.
Enjoy the polishing and etching and don't forget to show us some pictures later.

Best regards,
Detlef

mariusgmioc · 30th October 2016, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Marius,

beautiful kris from the 19th century, nearly can't believe that you get it from the Philippines. The scabbard seems to be much younger as the blade.
Enjoy the polishing and etching and don't forget to show us some pictures later.

Best regards,
Detlef

Yep, got it from the Philipines. They (FedEx of Philipines) wouldn't ship it to the Netherlands because they said it is forbidden by Dutch law. I had to press them to get better informed and in the end I got it.

Thank you for your comments and suggestion, but I am afraid it will have to wait a little in line before I will manage to give it the attention it deserves.

CharlesS · 30th October 2016, 09:52 PM

Absolutely lovely example from top to bottom....congrats!

The scabbard does look younger, but don't worry about that. How well does it fit the mouth of the scabbard?

Again, great find!

Battara · 31st October 2016, 02:12 AM

This is a nice Maguindanao datu kris. The grip might be later, but still early. However, the real worth is in the blade: one of the best datu class blades I've seen, even though there are a few missing silver inlays. Nice silver baka-baka clamps too.

As far as the scabbard is concerned, it might be later, but I'm not sure. It certainly is also Maguindanao in style. It would be good to test the scabbard bands to see if they are aluminum, white metal, or silver. If aluminum, then we are looking at the scabbard to be from the 1940s. If silver or white metal, then it was made earlier.

I'm a little surprised that there are anymore old kris available. Most of them are over here in the US, though I've heard that some are still hiding in the Philippines.

Sajen · 31st October 2016, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

As far as the scabbard is concerned, it might be later, but I'm not sure. It certainly is also Maguindanao in style. It would be good to test the scabbard bands to see if they are aluminum, white metal, or silver. If aluminum, then we are looking at the scabbard to be from the 1940s. If silver or white metal, then it was made earlier.

After a second look I have to agree, the scabbard bands look first like aluminum but seems to be from silver or other white metal. And the wood look well used.

VANDOO · 31st October 2016, 05:51 AM

CONGRATULATIONS ON AN EXCELLENT FIRST KRIS IT WILL BE DIFFICULT TO TOP THIS ONE. I ASSUME YOU BOUGHT A ROLLS ROYCE OR FERRARI FOR YOUR FIRST CAR BASED ON THIS .

mariusgmioc · 31st October 2016, 02:30 PM

Hello, and thank you for your comments!

Overall both the Kris and the scabbard show clear and consistent signs of age and wear making me think they are both contemporaries.

The bands on the scabbard appear to be a silver-brass alloy as they are white with a yellowish shade.

Regarding the inlays in the blade, they appear to be brass or a low carat gold alloy.

The fit between the blade and scabbard is tight enough to make me thingk the scabbard is either the original one or a very early replacement.

The overall unsheathed length of the kris is 68 cm, and it gives a very strong and sturdy feel.

Sajen · 31st October 2016, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

The fit between the blade and scabbard is tight enough to make me thingk the scabbard is either the original one or a very early replacement.

Hello Marius,

can you show a picture when the blade is inside the scabbard from sideward up? Again, great catch!

Best regards,
Detlef

Battara · 31st October 2016, 06:17 PM

I agree with you on the scabbard, but it would be good to test the bands, preferably by a jeweler.

The inlays on the blade are silver based on the patina I see.

Again a great piece and thanks for posting.

Sajen has a good idea - if you can take photos of the fit in the scabbard.

mross · 1st November 2016, 08:30 PM

Nice.

Gustav · 2nd November 2016, 06:44 PM

I am not so sure for it being a 19th cent. kris and a Datu piece.

The workmanship of the blade isn't particularly good, and inlays look a way strange to me. They are to many, they look to stiff and to neat. If you look at the picture, there are some strange features - the dots are drilled ignoring outline of the fullers at the end of the triangle, but especially the right border of the inlay field starting from the middle of the triangle would be very strange for a 19th or even beginning of the 20th cent. The end of the grooves is still in the middle of the blade, the continuation of the shape with dots and inlays goes out of center to the right. Also the left line of the central inlay field starting "somewhere" from a dot is strange.

At the moment my opinion would be - a quite simple 20th cent. blade, enhanced with "Datu class" inlays at some later time.

Gustav · 2nd November 2016, 06:58 PM

Or the whole blade with inlays being later.

Battara · 2nd November 2016, 11:56 PM

Well Gustav, I must disagree with you here. Whether datu class blade or not, I have seen may blades with inlays exactly just like this. If a person becomes a datu by his people, I can see the blade changing to match by the addition of inlays later.

Gustav · 3rd November 2016, 12:26 AM

Jose, I would like to see a blade older the 1920ties where the central inlay field starts like this.

For comparison two blades with common position of central field.

Rick · 3rd November 2016, 01:51 AM

There seems to be a bit too much erosion around the gangya area/s compared to the rest of the blade; the Greneng features(Jawa) seem too indistinct; the same with the file work below the kembang kacang/Elephant trunk.
With that amount of erosion there I would expect the blade to show more pitting.

mariusgmioc · 3rd November 2016, 10:32 AM

Whether late 19 century or early 20 century, this Kris is certainly a genuine antique item. All the pieces of the Kris show signs of wear and age corresponding to a prolonged use and exitence, and they are consistent throughout the whole piece. Even the scabbard shows significant wear and age.

What is "Datu" class?!

Sajen · 3rd November 2016, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Whether late 19 century or early 20 century, this Kris is certainly a genuine antique item. All the pieces of the Kris show signs of wear and age corresponding to a prolonged use and exitence, and they are consistent throughout the whole piece. Even the scabbard shows significant wear and age.

What is "Datu" class?!

Hello Marius,

regarding the age, can you provide dimensions? I have no doubt that this is an old/antique piece and I think the most others also.

For "datu" look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datu

Regards,
Detlef

Gustav · 3rd November 2016, 01:28 PM

Old/antique yes, but I doubt it being 19th cent., and I have yet to see another blade with such configuration of inlay motifs. Which (for me) poses the question about all inlays being old/antique.

Sajen · 3rd November 2016, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Old/antique yes, but I doubt it being 19th cent., and I have yet to see another blade with such configuration of inlay motifs. Which (for me) poses the question about all inlays being old/antique.

Hello Gustav,

regarding if it's a 19th century piece I've asked Marius for dimensions since a 19th century piece will be smaller as a 20th century kris. Regarding the inlays, it seems that the inlays are done before the grooves get carved in the blade, you can see this also by the both other kris you have provided pictures from.

Regards,
Detlef

Gustav · 3rd November 2016, 02:06 PM

Hello Detlef,

this for sure is true for the dots (or most of them), but not for the lines.

The configuration at the beginning of both lines, which border the central inlay field down the blade, is absolutely different from the other blades I did show in my previous post (I have explained the difference in it), and in fact, different from all old/antique blades I have seen so far.

Regards,
Gustav

mariusgmioc · 3rd November 2016, 02:16 PM

double message deleted

mariusgmioc · 3rd November 2016, 02:20 PM

The kris is rather large: 68 cm overall.

Thank you Detlef for the link regarding "Datu!"

Interesting observation Gustav, but I doubt that it has a deeper meaning than being simply a variation of the more common pattern.

Gustav · 3rd November 2016, 02:40 PM

Marius, norms and deviations from norms are bound to circumstances/time periods. If a feature, which is always performed in a certain way, has been changed, we should question the circumstances/time period.

mariusgmioc · 3rd November 2016, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Marius, norms and deviations from norms are bound to circumstances/time periods. If a feature, which is always performed in a certain way, has been changed, we should question the circumstances/time period.

But we can also question the area/smith. Diferent area/bladesmith, different style.

Sajen · 4th November 2016, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Hello Detlef,

this for sure is true for the dots (or most of them), but not for the lines.

The configuration at the beginning of both lines, which border the central inlay field down the blade, is absolutely different from the other blades I did show in my previous post (I have explained the difference in it), and in fact, different from all old/antique blades I have seen so far.

Regards,
Gustav

Hello Gustav,

now I understand what you mean but frankly said it look all original but it could be that the inlays around the central field are of later date but for sure not recent IMVHO also when it look a little bid weird.

Regards,
Detlef

30th October 2016, 08:46 PM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,871	Kris Moro for coments I recently received my first Kris Moro straight from the Philipines. As I am new to this type of Kris, any comments are welcomed. Attached Images

2nd November 2016, 06:44 PM	#12
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,196	I am not so sure for it being a 19th cent. kris and a Datu piece. The workmanship of the blade isn't particularly good, and inlays look a way strange to me. They are to many, they look to stiff and to neat. If you look at the picture, there are some strange features - the dots are drilled ignoring outline of the fullers at the end of the triangle, but especially the right border of the inlay field starting from the middle of the triangle would be very strange for a 19th or even beginning of the 20th cent. The end of the grooves is still in the middle of the blade, the continuation of the shape with dots and inlays goes out of center to the right. Also the left line of the central inlay field starting "somewhere" from a dot is strange. At the moment my opinion would be - a quite simple 20th cent. blade, enhanced with "Datu class" inlays at some later time. Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 2nd November 2016 at 07:15 PM.

3rd November 2016, 12:26 AM	#15
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,196	Jose, I would like to see a blade older the 1920ties where the central inlay field starts like this. For comparison two blades with common position of central field. Attached Images

3rd November 2016, 02:06 PM	#21
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,196	Hello Detlef, this for sure is true for the dots (or most of them), but not for the lines. The configuration at the beginning of both lines, which border the central inlay field down the blade, is absolutely different from the other blades I did show in my previous post (I have explained the difference in it), and in fact, different from all old/antique blades I have seen so far. Regards, Gustav Attached Images

30th October 2016, 09:52 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,855	Absolutely lovely example from top to bottom....congrats! The scabbard does look younger, but don't worry about that. How well does it fit the mouth of the scabbard? Again, great find!

31st October 2016, 02:12 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	This is a nice Maguindanao datu kris. The grip might be later, but still early. However, the real worth is in the blade: one of the best datu class blades I've seen, even though there are a few missing silver inlays. Nice silver baka-baka clamps too. As far as the scabbard is concerned, it might be later, but I'm not sure. It certainly is also Maguindanao in style. It would be good to test the scabbard bands to see if they are aluminum, white metal, or silver. If aluminum, then we are looking at the scabbard to be from the 1940s. If silver or white metal, then it was made earlier. I'm a little surprised that there are anymore old kris available. Most of them are over here in the US, though I've heard that some are still hiding in the Philippines.

31st October 2016, 05:51 AM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	CONGRATULATIONS ON AN EXCELLENT FIRST KRIS IT WILL BE DIFFICULT TO TOP THIS ONE. I ASSUME YOU BOUGHT A ROLLS ROYCE OR FERRARI FOR YOUR FIRST CAR BASED ON THIS .

31st October 2016, 02:30 PM	#8
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,871	Hello, and thank you for your comments! Overall both the Kris and the scabbard show clear and consistent signs of age and wear making me think they are both contemporaries. The bands on the scabbard appear to be a silver-brass alloy as they are white with a yellowish shade. Regarding the inlays in the blade, they appear to be brass or a low carat gold alloy. The fit between the blade and scabbard is tight enough to make me thingk the scabbard is either the original one or a very early replacement. The overall unsheathed length of the kris is 68 cm, and it gives a very strong and sturdy feel.

31st October 2016, 06:17 PM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I agree with you on the scabbard, but it would be good to test the bands, preferably by a jeweler. The inlays on the blade are silver based on the patina I see. Again a great piece and thanks for posting. Sajen has a good idea - if you can take photos of the fit in the scabbard.

1st November 2016, 08:30 PM	#11
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Nice.

2nd November 2016, 06:58 PM	#13
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,196	Or the whole blade with inlays being later.

2nd November 2016, 11:56 PM	#14
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Well Gustav, I must disagree with you here. Whether datu class blade or not, I have seen may blades with inlays exactly just like this. If a person becomes a datu by his people, I can see the blade changing to match by the addition of inlays later.

3rd November 2016, 01:51 AM	#16
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	There seems to be a bit too much erosion around the gangya area/s compared to the rest of the blade; the Greneng features(Jawa) seem too indistinct; the same with the file work below the kembang kacang/Elephant trunk. With that amount of erosion there I would expect the blade to show more pitting.

3rd November 2016, 10:32 AM	#17
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,871	Whether late 19 century or early 20 century, this Kris is certainly a genuine antique item. All the pieces of the Kris show signs of wear and age corresponding to a prolonged use and exitence, and they are consistent throughout the whole piece. Even the scabbard shows significant wear and age. What is "Datu" class?!

3rd November 2016, 01:28 PM	#19
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,196	Old/antique yes, but I doubt it being 19th cent., and I have yet to see another blade with such configuration of inlay motifs. Which (for me) poses the question about all inlays being old/antique.

3rd November 2016, 02:16 PM	#22
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,871	double message deleted

3rd November 2016, 02:20 PM	#23
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,871	The kris is rather large: 68 cm overall. Thank you Detlef for the link regarding "Datu!" Interesting observation Gustav, but I doubt that it has a deeper meaning than being simply a variation of the more common pattern.

3rd November 2016, 02:40 PM	#24
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,196	Marius, norms and deviations from norms are bound to circumstances/time periods. If a feature, which is always performed in a certain way, has been changed, we should question the circumstances/time period.