Long Pedang from Bali (or Lombok?)

Athanase · 3rd October 2019, 10:55 PM

Here is a pedang that I think Balinese. This is the first time I see one of this type.
Unfortunately there was no sheath.

Compared to the few Balinese pedang lurus I have seen until now, I was surprised by its relatively long length. (blade + hilt : 69cm)

Have you ever seen similar pedang?
What would a sheath look like for this type of blade?

kai · 4th October 2019, 12:00 AM

Hello Sevérin,

Congrats! I'm sure this blade deserves a polish and carful staining. Length doesn't seem unusual for a full-size example.

I've seen these pedang with fairly utilitarian scabbards. This one probably had a nicer one though...

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 20th March 2020, 02:37 PM

Just stumbled about this thread, it seems that I have overlooked it when get posted. Congrats Sevérin, a beautiful blade! I still would call it cundrik!

Regards,
Detlef

Henk · 21st March 2020, 12:39 AM

It is a balinese wedung. I've seen these before with such a long blade.
This how the scabbard looks like.

kai · 21st March 2020, 12:53 AM

Hello Henk,

Quote:

It is a balinese wedung. I've seen these before with such a long blade.
This how the scabbard looks like.

Wedung is a Javanese name.

While the hilt may be related, I also doubt that Sevérin's blade is of primarily ceremonial function...

Could you post one of the long blades with fitting scabbard that you mentioned, please?

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 21st March 2020, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

It is a balinese wedung. I've seen these before with such a long blade.
This how the scabbard looks like.

Hello Henk,
Yes, I know the term "Balinese wedung" but we know that this knife is known as tiuk pengentas, please see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=wedung
A tiuk pengentas has always a scabbard like the one you have shown in post #4 and a somewhat belly shaped edge.
The blade in question is from the form clearly a stabbing weapon and for sure not for ceremonial meaning.

So I doubt that this knife has had once a scabbard like a tiuk pengentas simple because it isn't such a knife.

I still think that we can call it cundrik.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 21st March 2020, 12:27 PM

The word "tiuk" in Balinese means "knife", this object is 65cm. long, a bit too long for a knife.

As far as I am aware, the word "cundrik" does not exist in Balinese, but Lalu Djelengga uses it in his book, so apparently it is a legitimate term in Lombok for a shortish pedang, but the examples Djelengga gives differ substantially from the example we have here.

The word "cuntrik" (pron. chuntri(k) the "k" is a glottal stop) does exist which is clearly a variant spelling, and a picture of a "keris cuntrik" in the Den Pasar Museum is below.

In Balinese the usual word for a sword-like weapon is "peding", the Balinese variant on "pedang".

The word "cundrik" is usually taken as a Javanese word, where it is a generic term for a dagger, and also the name of a keris dhapur.

In any case, whatever we care to call this sword, it is a pretty nice thing.

EDIT

I just remembered this one in the Neka in Ubud.

This is "Ki Pedang Nagaraja". The text about this pedang refers to it as a "keris" with the dhapur pedang. We must remember that the text of "Keris Bali" is written in Bahasa Indonesia by a Javanese gentleman.

kai · 21st March 2020, 12:58 AM

Hello Detlef,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

I still would call it cundrik!

Yup, I'm fine with that, too...

Regards,
Kai

Henk · 21st March 2020, 07:40 AM

Hello Kai,

Here in The Netherlands it is called by the older collectors a wedung from Bali. Although wedung is as you say Javanese balinese wedung is probably a Dutch classification.
Unfortunately I cann't show you such a wedung because these examples are in the collection of some elder Dutch collectors i used to visit years ago with the invitation of a deceased friend of my. In those days making pictures of the collections of these gentlemen was not done. Showing these items to others neither.

3rd October 2019, 10:55 PM	#1
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 403	Long Pedang from Bali (or Lombok?) Here is a pedang that I think Balinese. This is the first time I see one of this type. Unfortunately there was no sheath. Compared to the few Balinese pedang lurus I have seen until now, I was surprised by its relatively long length. (blade + hilt : 69cm) Have you ever seen similar pedang? What would a sheath look like for this type of blade? Attached Images

21st March 2020, 12:27 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	The word "tiuk" in Balinese means "knife", this object is 65cm. long, a bit too long for a knife. As far as I am aware, the word "cundrik" does not exist in Balinese, but Lalu Djelengga uses it in his book, so apparently it is a legitimate term in Lombok for a shortish pedang, but the examples Djelengga gives differ substantially from the example we have here. The word "cuntrik" (pron. chuntri(k) the "k" is a glottal stop) does exist which is clearly a variant spelling, and a picture of a "keris cuntrik" in the Den Pasar Museum is below. In Balinese the usual word for a sword-like weapon is "peding", the Balinese variant on "pedang". The word "cundrik" is usually taken as a Javanese word, where it is a generic term for a dagger, and also the name of a keris dhapur. In any case, whatever we care to call this sword, it is a pretty nice thing. EDIT I just remembered this one in the Neka in Ubud. This is "Ki Pedang Nagaraja". The text about this pedang refers to it as a "keris" with the dhapur pedang. We must remember that the text of "Keris Bali" is written in Bahasa Indonesia by a Javanese gentleman. Attached Images Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 21st March 2020 at 12:59 PM.

4th October 2019, 12:00 AM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,215	Hello Sevérin, Congrats! I'm sure this blade deserves a polish and carful staining. Length doesn't seem unusual for a full-size example. I've seen these pedang with fairly utilitarian scabbards. This one probably had a nicer one though... Regards, Kai

20th March 2020, 02:37 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,467	Just stumbled about this thread, it seems that I have overlooked it when get posted. Congrats Sevérin, a beautiful blade! I still would call it cundrik! Regards, Detlef

21st March 2020, 12:39 AM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	It is a balinese wedung. I've seen these before with such a long blade. This how the scabbard looks like. Attached Images

21st March 2020, 07:40 AM	#9
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Hello Kai, Here in The Netherlands it is called by the older collectors a wedung from Bali. Although wedung is as you say Javanese balinese wedung is probably a Dutch classification. Unfortunately I cann't show you such a wedung because these examples are in the collection of some elder Dutch collectors i used to visit years ago with the invitation of a deceased friend of my. In those days making pictures of the collections of these gentlemen was not done. Showing these items to others neither.