Finally Got a Bichwa

CourseEight · 4th September 2007, 02:42 PM

I've always wanted one fo these, and now I have 2!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=020

I'm especially happy to have a bronse handled one, as according to this thread they are rare?

Any comments would be GREATLY appreciated!

--Radleigh

Lew · 4th September 2007, 02:48 PM

Congrats! They should clean up nicely.

Lew

katana · 8th September 2007, 04:39 PM

Nice

could you post close-ups of the blades....its difficult to tell but the steel hilted one could be pattern welded or exen wootz !

Jim McDougall · 9th September 2007, 05:36 AM

Hi Radleigh,
Nicely done! Acquiring not one but two examples of very unusual Indian daggers at once!

I find these daggers that are usually found in Central to Southern regions in India most interesting. I am yet unclear on the dynamics of how these were held as it would seem holding either of the two parallel bars of the loop would not give sufficient support for the required thrust.
It is my understanding that the recurved blades typically found on these were intended for thrust and upward tearing action. The blade shape is said to represent the shape of the buffalo horns used on the original Dravidian daggers (Stone p.112-113). Despite this association the term bich'hwa curiously is translated from Hindi to mean sting of the scorpion.

From what I could find in "Hindu Arms and Ritual" by Elgood , p.176 the blade shape developed from about 16th century and possibly earlier. On p.197 it is suggested that steel and bronze examples are probably from Tanjore, which may imply these coming from the southeast regions. These examples are most likely of course probably from the 19th century, and again, most interesting because of the contrast between them as variants of this traditional weapon form.

Best regards,
Jim

Lew · 9th September 2007, 06:14 AM

Here is the one that I have for comparison. After you clean yours up it should look similar.

Lew

Jim McDougall · 9th September 2007, 06:57 AM

Excellent example Lew! and as shown in the link that Radleigh placed in his post, your bich'hwa is the only dagger that I have seen with that type marking on the blade. Also most interesting is that yours seems to be copper in the hilt.

Best regards,
Jim

Lew · 9th September 2007, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Also most interesting is that yours seems to be copper in the hilt.

Best regards,
Jim

Jim

I think the hilt is made of bronze not copper.

Lew

Jim McDougall · 9th September 2007, 05:21 PM

Lew,
Thanks very much, I couldnt really tell. Again, its really a nice one and I always wondered after the earlier thread if any more was determined on its origins and the interesting blade marking.

Jim

CourseEight · 15th September 2007, 03:40 AM

Hi --

Sorry for the delay in responding. I've received and cleaned the bichwa. Attached are photos. As you can see the handle is brass not bronze, but other than that I'm pretty pleased. The brass-handled one appears to have a patternwelded blade. The steel-handled one has a couple of stylized lions on the the handle, and is thickened at the point like some katar.

The most comfortable way to hold them seems to be with the hand through the loop as in the picture. With it in that position its pretty hard to drop, even with the palm open, and an arch of the arm would make an upward-thrusting attack.

I appreciate everyone's observations thus far!

--Radleigh

Lew · 17th September 2007, 04:23 AM

Sweet! They cleaned up nice congrats.

Lew

4th September 2007, 02:42 PM	#1
CourseEight Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Coral Springs, FL Posts: 222	Finally Got a Bichwa I've always wanted one fo these, and now I have 2! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=020 I'm especially happy to have a bronse handled one, as according to this thread they are rare? Any comments would be GREATLY appreciated! --Radleigh Attached Images

8th September 2007, 04:39 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Nice could you post close-ups of the blades....its difficult to tell but the steel hilted one could be pattern welded or exen wootz ! Last edited by katana; 8th September 2007 at 04:51 PM.

9th September 2007, 06:14 AM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Here is the one that I have for comparison. After you clean yours up it should look similar. Lew Attached Images

15th September 2007, 03:40 AM	#9
CourseEight Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Coral Springs, FL Posts: 222	Arrived, Cleaned, etc. Hi -- Sorry for the delay in responding. I've received and cleaned the bichwa. Attached are photos. As you can see the handle is brass not bronze, but other than that I'm pretty pleased. The brass-handled one appears to have a patternwelded blade. The steel-handled one has a couple of stylized lions on the the handle, and is thickened at the point like some katar. The most comfortable way to hold them seems to be with the hand through the loop as in the picture. With it in that position its pretty hard to drop, even with the palm open, and an arch of the arm would make an upward-thrusting attack. I appreciate everyone's observations thus far! --Radleigh Attached Images

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4th September 2007, 02:48 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Congrats! They should clean up nicely. Lew

9th September 2007, 05:36 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,731	Hi Radleigh, Nicely done! Acquiring not one but two examples of very unusual Indian daggers at once! I find these daggers that are usually found in Central to Southern regions in India most interesting. I am yet unclear on the dynamics of how these were held as it would seem holding either of the two parallel bars of the loop would not give sufficient support for the required thrust. It is my understanding that the recurved blades typically found on these were intended for thrust and upward tearing action. The blade shape is said to represent the shape of the buffalo horns used on the original Dravidian daggers (Stone p.112-113). Despite this association the term bich'hwa curiously is translated from Hindi to mean sting of the scorpion. From what I could find in "Hindu Arms and Ritual" by Elgood , p.176 the blade shape developed from about 16th century and possibly earlier. On p.197 it is suggested that steel and bronze examples are probably from Tanjore, which may imply these coming from the southeast regions. These examples are most likely of course probably from the 19th century, and again, most interesting because of the contrast between them as variants of this traditional weapon form. Best regards, Jim

9th September 2007, 06:57 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,731	Excellent example Lew! and as shown in the link that Radleigh placed in his post, your bich'hwa is the only dagger that I have seen with that type marking on the blade. Also most interesting is that yours seems to be copper in the hilt. Best regards, Jim

9th September 2007, 05:21 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,731	Lew, Thanks very much, I couldnt really tell. Again, its really a nice one and I always wondered after the earlier thread if any more was determined on its origins and the interesting blade marking. Jim

17th September 2007, 04:23 AM	#10
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Sweet! They cleaned up nice congrats. Lew