Toraja hit

Marcokeris · 18th May 2007, 02:48 PM

This old Sulawesi keris Hit is strange and for me is a good example of an ancient tradition (tribal arcaic tradition, not classic tradiction) direct not only to a classic weapon (keris) but also to classic sulawesi style handle (the sides of base of handle)
This hit has thin metal foil strongly pressed over a complete wood's body.
Over the foil the hit maker has traced the pattern of the underlyne wood.

Battara · 18th May 2007, 07:31 PM

What metal is used?

Alam Shah · 19th May 2007, 02:38 AM

Interesting hilt. Over the years, I've seen many but nothing that looks like this hilt. The base looks like those older Bima hilts from Sulawesi. But I wonder about this one, it significance and what it represents. Hmmm...

Marcokeris · 19th May 2007, 11:46 AM

Battara,I don'tknow. Probabily something like copper and zinc

Battara · 19th May 2007, 08:40 PM

Well, copper and zinc would together make bronze.

Marcokeris · 21st May 2007, 10:48 AM

Battara, brass

ganjawulung · 21st May 2007, 04:23 PM

Marco, in Javanese term, the figure at your hilt is known as "puthut kembar" or twin-priest. But I don't think that Sulawesi's term is such like that. Usually, puthut kembar is a name of dhapur betok (short but wide old keris) with two figures of priests (pendhita or puthut) in the "gandhik" (front-base of the keris) and "wadidang" (rear base). Many Javanese like this dhapur. So, there are many "fake puthut" in the market. Buat actually, betok or keris with puthut kembar motive, usually attractive...

Battara · 21st May 2007, 06:12 PM

My apologies - copper and tin make bronze.

Marcokeris · 22nd May 2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Marco, in Javanese term, the figure at your hilt is known as "puthut kembar" or twin-priest. But I don't think that Sulawesi's term is such like that. Usually, puthut kembar is a name of dhapur betok (short but wide old keris) with two figures of priests (pendhita or puthut) in the "gandhik" (front-base of the keris) and "wadidang" (rear base). Many Javanese like this dhapur. So, there are many "fake puthut" in the market. Buat actually, betok or keris with puthut kembar motive, usually attractive...

Hallo Ganja
I don't think that the figure in the hilt is influenced by javanese "puthut kembar" . I have only a photo of this handle. From this photo is not possible to see that one face is a skull , the other is a person.

I think that this toraja hilt has some arcaic influence common to all primitive people in any place of world.
Is possible to see the same figure also in some dayak statue. Also in african and oceanic statue is easy to see the figure of two person back against back. Also in Italy during the old "roman" classic period there was the figure of "Janus" a god with two opposite faces: one to see inside, the other to see outside.

ganjawulung · 22nd May 2007, 01:37 PM

Or maybe puthut kembar was influenced by those primitive figures. Of course according to Javanese interpretation. But again and again: .... it's maybe yes, maybe no.. Thanks for the explanation, Marco.

18th May 2007, 02:48 PM	#1
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Toraja hit This old Sulawesi keris Hit is strange and for me is a good example of an ancient tradition (tribal arcaic tradition, not classic tradiction) direct not only to a classic weapon (keris) but also to classic sulawesi style handle (the sides of base of handle) This hit has thin metal foil strongly pressed over a complete wood's body. Over the foil the hit maker has traced the pattern of the underlyne wood. Attached Images

19th May 2007, 02:38 AM	#3
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Interesting hilt. Over the years, I've seen many but nothing that looks like this hilt. The base looks like those older Bima hilts from Sulawesi. But I wonder about this one, it significance and what it represents. Hmmm... Last edited by Alam Shah; 19th May 2007 at 02:50 AM.

18th May 2007, 07:31 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	What metal is used?

19th May 2007, 11:46 AM	#4
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Battara,I don'tknow. Probabily something like copper and zinc

19th May 2007, 08:40 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Well, copper and zinc would together make bronze.

21st May 2007, 10:48 AM	#6
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Battara, brass

21st May 2007, 04:23 PM	#7
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Marco, in Javanese term, the figure at your hilt is known as "puthut kembar" or twin-priest. But I don't think that Sulawesi's term is such like that. Usually, puthut kembar is a name of dhapur betok (short but wide old keris) with two figures of priests (pendhita or puthut) in the "gandhik" (front-base of the keris) and "wadidang" (rear base). Many Javanese like this dhapur. So, there are many "fake puthut" in the market. Buat actually, betok or keris with puthut kembar motive, usually attractive...

21st May 2007, 06:12 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	My apologies - copper and tin make bronze.

22nd May 2007, 01:37 PM	#10
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Or maybe puthut kembar was influenced by those primitive figures. Of course according to Javanese interpretation. But again and again: .... it's maybe yes, maybe no.. Thanks for the explanation, Marco.