My 2 new adquisitions from Philippines

[carlos]

Thanks allí for your information!!!!
The dark inlays are made from wood, yes !

[kai]

Very nice collection of early Filipino swords, Carlos!

I agree that the other blade might well have a Lumad origin, especially Mandaya and possibly related groups; even despite figural hilts not being documented from this area - also neighbouring Visayan islands may be a possibility. Do I assume correctly though that the edge doesn't exhibit a chisel grind?

While of somewhat similar shape, I'd posit that the Luzon bolos are not as closely related. However, they may hint at an earlier ancestral blade shared more widely across the islands.

Regards,
Kai

[Ian]

Originally Posted by kai

...
I agree that the other blade might well have a Lumad origin, especially Mandaya and possibly related groups; even despite figural hilts not being documented from this area ...

This does not look Mandayan to me. The hilt would be highly unusual, as would the inscribed blade. Also, the blade lacks the little "nubbin" along the cutting edge where it angles down sharply. Incidentally, I think the right hand sword in Carlos' picture of five is Mandayan, showing the typical hilt form and blade with (what I think) is that small "nubbin" on the edge.

... also neighbouring Visayan islands may be a possibility. Do I assume correctly though that the edge doesn't exhibit a chisel grind? ...

There's a lot of Visayan odd deity hilts but I've not seen one like this, especially with curly hair. It's sort of reminiscent of a Sinhalese lion with that curly mane.

While of somewhat similar shape, I'd posit that the Luzon bolos are not as closely related. However, they may hint at an earlier ancestral blade shared more widely across the islands. ...

The resemblance seems vague to me and I don't know of any hilt forms like that in northern Luzon.

I'm in the not-Filipino camp for this one.

[kai]

Hello Ian,

This does not look Mandayan to me. The hilt would be highly unusual,

Yes, it is. However it does not help unless we find a provenanced example to align it with: For the time being, just ignore it and focus on the blade, please.

as would the inscribed blade.

Yes, the engraved "bolster" is unusual; as you are aware, some Visayan blades exhibit varying amounts of engraving or sculpturing at their (often widening) bases. The shallow fuller is unusual, too.

Also, the blade lacks the little "nubbin" along the cutting edge where it angles down sharply.

Incidentally, I think the right hand sword in Carlos' picture of five is Mandayan, showing the typical hilt form and blade with (what I think) is that small "nubbin" on the edge.

Indeed, the latter is a good Mandaya example including the blade with "central" ridge (which not all Mandaya blades exhibit). I feel that placing the blade under discussion next to it is a good idea: Especially considering the kink in the blade and its flared base.

There are several Mandaya subgroups and neighbouring groups. Linguistically, Mandayan languages are linked to a few neighbouring Lumad groups and, less closely, Visayan groups.

There's a lot of Visayan odd deity hilts but I've not seen one like this, especially with curly hair. It's sort of reminiscent of a Sinhalese lion with that curly mane.

It's certainly not one of the major types. While this strongly curled hair can be also seen with some Indonesian groups, I'd be inclined to believe we might see some Chinese influence here.

The resemblance seems vague to me and I don't know of any hilt forms like that in northern Luzon.

For the time being, we have no convincing contender for this hilt.

Dipalata blades don't have the widening at the base nor the kink in the blade; the round guard crafted from steel or horn is more widely shared though.

Establishing a possible link between these will prove to be much harder since this would refer back to a way earlier period.

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

I don't think that the sword under discussion is Indonesian.

[Rick]

Nor do I.
Reminiscent does not imply that I thought the sword to be of Sumatran origin.

[carlos]

Thanks all for the information
I add another picture from seller...

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Rick

Nor do I.
Reminiscent does not imply that I thought the sword to be of Sumatran origin.

Hello Rick,

My comment was meant in general terms, not related to any previous comment.

Regards,
Detlef