Weapons from Holstein collection

Kubur · 3rd June 2017, 06:17 PM

Hi Guys,

Do you have weapons from Holstein's collection?
I think I do at least for one...

all the best,
Kubur

Gavin Nugent · 4th June 2017, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Guys,

Do you have weapons from Holstein's collection?
I think I do at least for one...

all the best,
Kubur

Several members here own some items or have owned some Holstein items, a search for Holstein should shed more light on this aspect.
I would however, in the absence of an actual line of decent, not be inclined to claim such an origin even if the item one owns looked the same at face value. I only say this based on one higher end item within my own collection being a mirror of an item in a century old Russian museum publication.

Gavin

Kubur · 4th June 2017, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

Several members here own some items or have owned some Holstein items, a search for Holstein should shed more light on this aspect.
I would however, in the absence of an actual line of decent, not be inclined to claim such an origin even if the item one owns looked the same at face value. I only say this based on one higher end item within my own collection being a mirror of an item in a century old Russian museum publication.

Gavin

Well, you are right Gavin.
Even very similar I have no proof to say that and to post the object here.
But for you, if you have good photos from the Russian publication, I'm sure that's possible to spot small details that will tell you if it's the same object or not...

Jens Nordlunde · 4th June 2017, 03:31 PM

Did you know that not all the weapons shown in the Holstein catalogue are from his collection?

Kubur · 5th June 2017, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Did you know that not all the weapons shown in the Holstein catalogue are from his collection?

Well, your question pushes me to another question.
What makes a weapon valuable?
Is it because this weapon belongs to a famous collector?
or is it because this weapon was published?

It's maybe both... I don't know...

Peter Dekker · 5th June 2017, 03:56 PM

Famous provenance is surely "nice to have", and in case of a weapon of a famous person could indeed drive the price up a lot. This is more true for something belonging to a famous historical figure than coming from a certain collection, although the latter can be re-assuring for sure.

In general though, I think value is assessed best through looking at the following factors:

1. The item itself
Quality, condition, craftsmanship, aesthetic appeal.

2. Scarcity
How rare is a piece of comparable quality, condition, etc. How does it compare to similar weapons from this culture.

3. Popularity of the genre
How many collectors are actively collecting this genre.

Some examples:
There are many Japanese swords on the market that score high on all points under 1. Yet, because an estimated 2 million blades survive, they aren't exactly rare. So collectors can afford to be extremely picky, and they are. So many survived that even the popularity of Japanese arms doesn't help drive the prices up much for any but the very best examples.

Another example are good arms from Sri Lanka. Their craftsmanship is among the very best work produced in Asia. It's hard to find an item still in impeccable condition. And even then, there are not a lot of collectors focusing on this field so even very good pieces can still be had relatively cheap.

Some arms tend to be so rare that collectors aren't at all fussy about quality / condition, they are just glad to find a representative example, period. This is true for example about arms and armor from Korea.

Still, value in this field is highly subjective. I recently paid way too much for an arrow with a Manchu word on it. It's just a stick with feathers for most people, and it wasn't even in good condition. But it was the only one I've seen with a Manchu word on it in the decade of studying Manchu archery and collecting related items. So to me, and only me, it was a real treasure!

Jens Nordlunde · 5th June 2017, 04:14 PM

What I mean is, should someone have a weapon shown in the catalogue, it could have come from another collection than Holstein's.
There is even a drawing of a weapon in the catalogue, drawn late 19th century by Mitra Rajendralala, from an Indian temple in Orissa from the 10th or 11th century - see the article How Old is the Katar?

3rd June 2017, 06:17 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Weapons from Holstein collection Hi Guys, Do you have weapons from Holstein's collection? I think I do at least for one... all the best, Kubur

4th June 2017, 03:31 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Did you know that not all the weapons shown in the Holstein catalogue are from his collection?

5th June 2017, 03:56 PM	#6
Peter Dekker Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Kingdom of the Netherlands Posts: 63	Famous provenance is surely "nice to have", and in case of a weapon of a famous person could indeed drive the price up a lot. This is more true for something belonging to a famous historical figure than coming from a certain collection, although the latter can be re-assuring for sure. In general though, I think value is assessed best through looking at the following factors: 1. The item itself Quality, condition, craftsmanship, aesthetic appeal. 2. Scarcity How rare is a piece of comparable quality, condition, etc. How does it compare to similar weapons from this culture. 3. Popularity of the genre How many collectors are actively collecting this genre. Some examples: There are many Japanese swords on the market that score high on all points under 1. Yet, because an estimated 2 million blades survive, they aren't exactly rare. So collectors can afford to be extremely picky, and they are. So many survived that even the popularity of Japanese arms doesn't help drive the prices up much for any but the very best examples. Another example are good arms from Sri Lanka. Their craftsmanship is among the very best work produced in Asia. It's hard to find an item still in impeccable condition. And even then, there are not a lot of collectors focusing on this field so even very good pieces can still be had relatively cheap. Some arms tend to be so rare that collectors aren't at all fussy about quality / condition, they are just glad to find a representative example, period. This is true for example about arms and armor from Korea. Still, value in this field is highly subjective. I recently paid way too much for an arrow with a Manchu word on it. It's just a stick with feathers for most people, and it wasn't even in good condition. But it was the only one I've seen with a Manchu word on it in the decade of studying Manchu archery and collecting related items. So to me, and only me, it was a real treasure!

5th June 2017, 04:14 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	What I mean is, should someone have a weapon shown in the catalogue, it could have come from another collection than Holstein's. There is even a drawing of a weapon in the catalogue, drawn late 19th century by Mitra Rajendralala, from an Indian temple in Orissa from the 10th or 11th century - see the article How Old is the Katar?