Two Fine and Characteristic Military Matchlock Muskets, Suhl, ca. 1615-20

Matchlock · 22nd February 2014, 05:20 PM

Almost identical, the two are typical muskets from the beginning of the Thirty Years War, and of Dutch type, the beechwood full stock with flared fishtail butt painted black, the sighted barrel struck with Suhl (Thuringia, Germany) marks and octagonal at the breech, then changing to round section, the rectangular lock of Suhl type.
Overall length of this type of musket ca. 156 cm, weight ca. 7 kg.

After ca. 1600, Suhl, as the biggest cluster of independent gunsmiths workshops of that period, increasingly specialized in furnishing barrels, locks and mounts to various European countries and their armories where they were stocked respectively. Among those countries relatively easily identfiable by the connoisseur on the grounds of their national pecularities in stocking are Switzerland, the Netherlands and Sweden.

The first of these two muskets is arranged in a wonderfully atmospheric photo, and on display at the Royal Armouries, Leeds, together with a contemporary musketeer's bandolier complete with its wooden powder measures covered with thin blackened leather and a leather pouch for balls, and a characteristic musket rest retaining its original ash haft.

Clamped between the jaws of the serpentine of the first musket is a length of original hemp matchcord from my collection which I donated to Graeme Rimer of the Royal Armouries in 1991 because I was aware that that was one rare piece of accessory that the RA did not have.

The small trapezoid flask for priming powder shown together with the second musket, the body made of wood covered with green velvet and reinforced by iron bands, the top mount consisting of an iron cap to which a tapering nozzle is soldered, and retaining its original woollen tassels, actually is of Swiss type.
The damaged bandolier comprising a light brown leather string attached to which is a number of small round flasks lathed of thin-walled wood, with the bullet pouch missing.

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 26th February 2014, 02:07 PM

A similar, contemporary sample, ca. 1615-20, with a Netherlandish stock, the barrel and lock Suhl made, in the Musée de l'Armée, Paris.

m

Marcus den toom · 26th February 2014, 02:36 PM

Beautiful and elegant weapons

I see an iron mount protruding from the lock? Was this to hold the match cord?

Matchlock · 26th February 2014, 02:46 PM

Hi Marcus,

As I cannot see what you seem to see, could you please mark the spot for me to identify? There seems to be nothing to this lock mechanism that ought not to be there.

Best,
m

Marcus den toom · 26th February 2014, 03:10 PM

I think i already see what it is, the hook which keeps the gun on the wall.
Its a bit of an optical illusion, but nothing special

Matchlock · 26th February 2014, 03:14 PM

It is a museum's hook in the wall!

m

Marcus den toom · 26th February 2014, 05:38 PM

I really need new glasses...

I looked at the Dutch army museum's (Delft) online collection and found these examples.
They do have a very typical form i would say (but seeing as i just confused a wall hanger for a matchcord holder i will not go forth and try to state a fact

)

Matchlock · 26th February 2014, 05:49 PM

Great selection, Marcus,

Thank you for posting!

Telling by the serpentines I should say these are a bit later/younger, 1620's.

Do you happen to know their overall length?

m

Marcus den toom · 26th February 2014, 06:30 PM

Thank you Michael

Allas, the Dutch "zuinigheid" (frugality) didn't permit them to write this down i think...
the second one does have a discription which can be translated roughly to: "Partly round with octagonal barrel. Topside of barrel with raised sight en two unidentified markings (one of which a shield with three crosses). Stock partly restored (butt stock) and some woodworm damages."

http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/...tring=lontslot

cornelistromp · 27th February 2014, 07:23 AM

the lower musket;
reg 018264 dated by jp puype 1620-1630
L: 152cm
barrel: 1155
bore: 19mm
this musket has a had a very long working life, the forestock is a replacement, on almost every pin/screw location a new piece of wood has been inserted. the other one I have to check my notes I believe it is slightly ( a few cm) shorter allover.

the musket in one post #1 is a perfect example of a Dutch musket (read a musket used in the Netherlands) it has the mark of the double A, the arsenal of admiraiteit of Amsterdam stamped in the stock.

best,
jasper

Matchlock · 27th February 2014, 10:50 AM

Hi Jasper,

With a bore and length like the instances given by you that musket was manufactured definitely before ca. 1630, when the Swedish king Gustav Adolf's decree of 1624 said that the ordinary musket had to have a smoothbore of 19-20 mm and a total length of 141 cm.
We know however from existing samples that even in Sweden, muskets continued to be built with a barrel length of 115-118 cm, corresponding to a total length of ca. 156 cm.

Best,
Michael

cornelistromp · 1st March 2014, 08:31 AM

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the info, yes your theory is correct.
at the dutch muskets that I measure I really did not find an association between height and age.
the barrel varied between 960mm and 1200mm, and allover length 130cm and 160cm
the longest musket was a musket from Utrecht in the army museum 1630-1640
length 160cm, barrel 1200 and bore 20.5, No 006069

best,
Jasper

26th February 2014, 02:07 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A similar, contemporary sample, ca. 1615-20, with a Netherlandish stock, the barrel and lock Suhl made, in the Musée de l'Armée, Paris. m Attached Images

26th February 2014, 02:46 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Marcus, As I cannot see what you seem to see, could you please mark the spot for me to identify? There seems to be nothing to this lock mechanism that ought not to be there. Best, m Last edited by Matchlock; 26th February 2014 at 03:04 PM.

22nd February 2014, 05:20 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Two Fine and Characteristic Military Matchlock Muskets, Suhl, ca. 1615-20 Almost identical, the two are typical muskets from the beginning of the Thirty Years War, and of Dutch type, the beechwood full stock with flared fishtail butt painted black, the sighted barrel struck with Suhl (Thuringia, Germany) marks and octagonal at the breech, then changing to round section, the rectangular lock of Suhl type. Overall length of this type of musket ca. 156 cm, weight ca. 7 kg. After ca. 1600, Suhl, as the biggest cluster of independent gunsmiths workshops of that period, increasingly specialized in furnishing barrels, locks and mounts to various European countries and their armories where they were stocked respectively. Among those countries relatively easily identfiable by the connoisseur on the grounds of their national pecularities in stocking are Switzerland, the Netherlands and Sweden. The first of these two muskets is arranged in a wonderfully atmospheric photo, and on display at the Royal Armouries, Leeds, together with a contemporary musketeer's bandolier complete with its wooden powder measures covered with thin blackened leather and a leather pouch for balls, and a characteristic musket rest retaining its original ash haft. Clamped between the jaws of the serpentine of the first musket is a length of original hemp matchcord from my collection which I donated to Graeme Rimer of the Royal Armouries in 1991 because I was aware that that was one rare piece of accessory that the RA did not have. The small trapezoid flask for priming powder shown together with the second musket, the body made of wood covered with green velvet and reinforced by iron bands, the top mount consisting of an iron cap to which a tapering nozzle is soldered, and retaining its original woollen tassels, actually is of Swiss type. The damaged bandolier comprising a light brown leather string attached to which is a number of small round flasks lathed of thin-walled wood, with the bullet pouch missing. Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 23rd February 2014 at 02:48 PM.

26th February 2014, 02:36 PM	#3
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 493	Beautiful and elegant weapons I see an iron mount protruding from the lock? Was this to hold the match cord?

26th February 2014, 03:10 PM	#5
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 493	I think i already see what it is, the hook which keeps the gun on the wall. Its a bit of an optical illusion, but nothing special

26th February 2014, 03:14 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	It is a museum's hook in the wall! m

26th February 2014, 05:38 PM	#7
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 493	I really need new glasses... I looked at the Dutch army museum's (Delft) online collection and found these examples. They do have a very typical form i would say (but seeing as i just confused a wall hanger for a matchcord holder i will not go forth and try to state a fact )

26th February 2014, 05:49 PM	#8
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Great selection, Marcus, Thank you for posting! Telling by the serpentines I should say these are a bit later/younger, 1620's. Do you happen to know their overall length? m

26th February 2014, 06:30 PM	#9
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 493	Thank you Michael Allas, the Dutch "zuinigheid" (frugality) didn't permit them to write this down i think... the second one does have a discription which can be translated roughly to: "Partly round with octagonal barrel. Topside of barrel with raised sight en two unidentified markings (one of which a shield with three crosses). Stock partly restored (butt stock) and some woodworm damages." http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/...tring=lontslot

27th February 2014, 07:23 AM	#10
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	the lower musket; reg 018264 dated by jp puype 1620-1630 L: 152cm barrel: 1155 bore: 19mm this musket has a had a very long working life, the forestock is a replacement, on almost every pin/screw location a new piece of wood has been inserted. the other one I have to check my notes I believe it is slightly ( a few cm) shorter allover. the musket in one post #1 is a perfect example of a Dutch musket (read a musket used in the Netherlands) it has the mark of the double A, the arsenal of admiraiteit of Amsterdam stamped in the stock. best, jasper

27th February 2014, 10:50 AM	#11
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Jasper, With a bore and length like the instances given by you that musket was manufactured definitely before ca. 1630, when the Swedish king Gustav Adolf's decree of 1624 said that the ordinary musket had to have a smoothbore of 19-20 mm and a total length of 141 cm. We know however from existing samples that even in Sweden, muskets continued to be built with a barrel length of 115-118 cm, corresponding to a total length of ca. 156 cm. Best, Michael

1st March 2014, 08:31 AM	#12
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	Hi Michael, Thanks for the info, yes your theory is correct. at the dutch muskets that I measure I really did not find an association between height and age. the barrel varied between 960mm and 1200mm, and allover length 130cm and 160cm the longest musket was a musket from Utrecht in the army museum 1630-1640 length 160cm, barrel 1200 and bore 20.5, No 006069 best, Jasper