HISTORY OF STEEL IN EASTERN ASIA EXHIBITION NOW ONLINE

Rivkin · 28th December 2006, 05:45 PM

I can hardly see any bigotry involved in disagreement over the exact dates of Moro-American war or who was the first european to arrive at Fillipines. After all the fuss I have seen no reference presented to the presence of anyone visiting the islands prior to Magellan.

ariel · 28th December 2006, 06:00 PM

Mabagani,
I can see you are upset .
I hear you.
Can you, please tell me what was factually wrong with the Ph. exhibit?
What caused such grief in the Ph. community? I Obviously, the exhibition touched a raw nerve; I would like to know what is it in order not to commit a similar transgression with my Ph. co-workers.
What is so offensive about including Ph. in the general realm of SE Asia? After all, that is where geographically it belongs, isn't it?
Please understand, I am not attacking you; on the contrary, I would like to learn from what obviously was an unpleasant experience by and for others.

Tim Simmons · 28th December 2006, 06:28 PM

I am not involved with this in any way. I would like a copy of the catalogue. As this is a post on the forum then anyone can reply.

That said, why do we always see this constant squabbling, belligerent postulating, pontificating, and fighting for the final word as if you are all scholarly masters when it comes to any weapons East of the Naga Hills?

ariel · 28th December 2006, 08:48 PM

Or West of Naga Hills, for that matter...

I think it was Henry Kissinger ( a former Prof. at Harvard) who said that academic turf battles are so vicious because the stakes are very small...
I too want to have the catalogue!

Spunjer · 28th December 2006, 09:08 PM

Quote:

That said, why do we always see this constant squabbling, belligerent postulating, pontificating, and fighting for the final word as if you are all scholarly masters when it comes to any weapons East of the Naga Hills?

that's just it, tim. perspective is a motherSHOUTYOURMOUTH. everyone has their own reason of collecting swords, but i would dare say that for the majority it's nothing but a pasttime, a hobby. yes, you have members that would try to create a pseudo ritual based on what that person have read on what the natives used to do in regards to venerating their swords. why? is it because it's de regeur? why not believe in all the mysticism that's involved within that culture as well? for what, you ask. that's all bullcrap. magick is not real. but you see, therein lies point. why pick and choose on what and what not to believe? that's why i dare say that majority here collects these weapon as a hobby, and that's that person's prerogative.

in regards to your question, whether it's rhetorical or sarcastic, i sense what you're trying to say is that we can't have any scholarly masters in this here forum? or maybe it's something else?

RhysMichael · 29th December 2006, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

why not believe in all the mysticism that's involved within that culture as well? for what, you ask. that's all bullcrap. magick is not real. but you see, therein lies point. why pick and choose on what and what not to believe?

I am a firefighter and have worn a St Florien ( the patron saint of firefighters) metal every day of my life for 30 years. How could I ( or anyone else then ) judge someone negatively for some other beliefs in ritual or talismans. We all choose what we believe in but that does not make my belief any more valid than someone elses or vise versa.

That said I would like to see things not escalate to anger. I think so many people here have so much to share and contribute, and they have certainly done so freely with me.

VANDOO · 29th December 2006, 08:44 PM

COULD THE EXHIBIT HAVE BEEN PERFECT "NO"!! COULD IT HAVE PLEASED EVERYONE? "NO"!! ANYTHING PEOPLE DO IS NEVER PERFECT NOR CAN IT PLEASE EVERYONE.

IT COULD HAVE BEEN A BETTER EXHIBIT IF MORE TIME MORE MONEY AND A BIGGER MUSEUM IN MACAU SO A LARGER EXHIBIT COULD HAVE OCCURED. GOOD TEAM WORK BETWEEN ALL GROUPS AND FACTIONS WOULD HAVE ADDED TO THE ACCURACY AND LESSENED THE DISSAPOINTMENTS OF SOME.

IN THE REAL WORLD THERE WAS A VERY SHORT TIMETABLE, LIMITED MONEY, SPACE AND NO TIME TO CONSULT EVERYONE AND MAKE SURE OF ALL THE FACTS AND THAT NO FEATHERS WERE RUFFLED. THE ARTICLES PUBLISHED WERE THE WAY THE PEOPLE FROM THOSE CULTURES VIEWED THEIR HISTORY AND AS SUCH OFTEN AT ODDS WITH OTHER CULTURES OR COUNTRYS. I COULD WRITE AN ARTICLE ON WHAT I THINK THE PHILLIPPINES ARE ABOUT BASED ON WHAT LITTLE I KNOW OR HAVE READ IN ALL INNOCENCE AND NO DOUBT ANGER MANY DUE TO MY POINT OF VIEW AND IGNORENCE. IF ONLY ONE ITEM OF THE MANY SHIPPED OVER AND BACK WAS DAMAGED IT IS UNFORTUNATE BUT REMARKABLE THAT THE DAMMAGE WAS SO SMALL. I PACKED MY ITEMS TO WITHSTAND NUCLEAR WAR, TSUNAMI OR VOLCANIC ERUPTION SO THEY CAME THRU OK, BUT BAGGAGE HANDLERS CAN BE WORSE THEN ANY OF THOSE.

IN FACT THE EXHIBIT WAS A REMARKABLE AND WORTHY ACCOMPLISHMENT WITH ALL THE MISTAKES AND UNINTENTIONAL OMMISSIONS AND THINGS CONSIDERED AS INSULTS OR MISLEADING ERRORS. THE FACT THAT A SMALL MUSEUM MADE THIS ATTEMPT AND FOLLOWED THRU TO COMPLETION SUCH AN EXHIBIT AND HOPEFULLY THE CATALOG, IS WORTHY OF PRAISE AND APPRECIATION. HOW MANY EXHIBITS OF ETHINOGRAPHIC WEAPONS HAVE THERE BEEN IN RECENT YEARS?
ANTONIO WAS UNDER MORE PRESSURE FROM THE EXHIBIT AND LACK OF TIME AND HELP THAN ANY ONE MAN SHOULD BE AND ALSO HAD MORE IRONS IN THE FIRE AS WELL AS HIS OWN LIFE TO LEAD. IF I HAD BEEN IN HIS SHOES I WOULD HAVE RAN OFF TO QUILIN CHINA AND LIVED IN A CAVE AS A HERMIT FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE AND THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO EXHIBIT.

SO I UNDERSTAND AND APPRECIATE ALL HIS HARD WORK EVEN IF IT IS NOT PERFECTION. ANTONIO HAS ALWAYS CAME ACROSS AS A GENTELMAN TO ME BUT CONSIDERING THE STRESS AND HARD WORK HE HAS BEEN UNDER A HARSH RESPONCE TO THE EXHIBIT WOULD BE LIKE A SLAP IN THE FACE SO WOULD NO DOUBT DRAW A HOT RESPONCE. WHICH WOULD THEN BE REGRETTED LATER. I HAVE CERTIANLY DONE IT A FEW TIMES MYSELF WHEN I THOUGHT I HAD DONE MY BEST AND SOMEONE TRASHED MY WORK AND SAID IT WAS WORTHLESS I WAS SUPRIZED AND THEN FURIOUS.

I DON'T MIND SOMEONE TELLING ME WHERE I GO WRONG AND HELPING ME TO CORRECT IT BUT AM NOT TOLERANT OF ATTACKS ON MY INTELLEGENCE WITH NO RECOMENDATIONS ON HOW TO CORRECT IT.

IT WOULD BE GOOD IF THE INCORRECT INFORMATION IN THE CATALOG COULD BE CORRECTED AND THE MUSEUM SHOULD RESPOND TO ANYONE WHO TAKES THE TIME TO POINT OUT MISTAKES EVEN IF IT IS TOO LATE TO CORRECT THEM AS A PROFESSIONAL COURTSY. BUT SOMETIMES THAT DOSEN'T HAPPEN FAST DUE TO LACK OF TIME INTERPRETERS OR FUNDS.

PERHAPS SOME OF OUR AMERICAN PHILIPPINO MEMBERS COULD WORK WITH A MUSEUM IN THE PHILIPPINES AND ORGANIZE AN EXHIBIT THERE. WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO MORE ACCURATE INFORMATION AND WE COULD GET TO SEE SOME OF THEIR COLLECTIONS. WE AS COLLECTORS ARE INTERESTED IN ALL THE CULTURES OUR WEAPONS COME FROM, BUT TO HAVE PRIDE IN THE CULTURE IT MUST BE YOUR OWN. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT BLOOD OR PRIDE IT IS EASY TO MISUNDERSTAND AND CONSIDER THINGS UNIMPORTANT AND CAUSE HARD FEELINGS WITH THOSE WHO CONSIDER THEM AS VERY IMPORTANT. PLEASE TRY TO FORGIVE OUR IGNORENCE AND LACK OF SENSITIVITY AS WE NEVER MEAN TO INSULT AND WE WILL ALSO TRY TO STAY COOL IF YOU UNKNOWINGLY TROD ON OUR TOES.

SO I FOR ONE AM WILLING TO FORGIVE ANY MISTAKES OR OMISSIONS AS I FEEL IT IS BETTER TO HAVE HAD AND PARTICIPATED IN THE EXHIBIT THAN TO HAVE HAD NONE AT ALL.

Andrew · 29th December 2006, 11:31 PM

I'm traveling and responding on my PDA. I need some time and a laptop to digest some of this. Until then, I'm locking this thread.

Everyone please cool down.

28th December 2006, 05:45 PM	#1
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	I can hardly see any bigotry involved in disagreement over the exact dates of Moro-American war or who was the first european to arrive at Fillipines. After all the fuss I have seen no reference presented to the presence of anyone visiting the islands prior to Magellan.

28th December 2006, 06:00 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Mabagani, I can see you are upset . I hear you. Can you, please tell me what was factually wrong with the Ph. exhibit? What caused such grief in the Ph. community? I Obviously, the exhibition touched a raw nerve; I would like to know what is it in order not to commit a similar transgression with my Ph. co-workers. What is so offensive about including Ph. in the general realm of SE Asia? After all, that is where geographically it belongs, isn't it? Please understand, I am not attacking you; on the contrary, I would like to learn from what obviously was an unpleasant experience by and for others.

28th December 2006, 06:28 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,742	I am not involved with this in any way. I would like a copy of the catalogue. As this is a post on the forum then anyone can reply. That said, why do we always see this constant squabbling, belligerent postulating, pontificating, and fighting for the final word as if you are all scholarly masters when it comes to any weapons East of the Naga Hills?

28th December 2006, 08:48 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Or West of Naga Hills, for that matter... I think it was Henry Kissinger ( a former Prof. at Harvard) who said that academic turf battles are so vicious because the stakes are very small... I too want to have the catalogue!

29th December 2006, 08:44 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	COULD THE EXHIBIT HAVE BEEN PERFECT "NO"!! COULD IT HAVE PLEASED EVERYONE? "NO"!! ANYTHING PEOPLE DO IS NEVER PERFECT NOR CAN IT PLEASE EVERYONE. IT COULD HAVE BEEN A BETTER EXHIBIT IF MORE TIME MORE MONEY AND A BIGGER MUSEUM IN MACAU SO A LARGER EXHIBIT COULD HAVE OCCURED. GOOD TEAM WORK BETWEEN ALL GROUPS AND FACTIONS WOULD HAVE ADDED TO THE ACCURACY AND LESSENED THE DISSAPOINTMENTS OF SOME. IN THE REAL WORLD THERE WAS A VERY SHORT TIMETABLE, LIMITED MONEY, SPACE AND NO TIME TO CONSULT EVERYONE AND MAKE SURE OF ALL THE FACTS AND THAT NO FEATHERS WERE RUFFLED. THE ARTICLES PUBLISHED WERE THE WAY THE PEOPLE FROM THOSE CULTURES VIEWED THEIR HISTORY AND AS SUCH OFTEN AT ODDS WITH OTHER CULTURES OR COUNTRYS. I COULD WRITE AN ARTICLE ON WHAT I THINK THE PHILLIPPINES ARE ABOUT BASED ON WHAT LITTLE I KNOW OR HAVE READ IN ALL INNOCENCE AND NO DOUBT ANGER MANY DUE TO MY POINT OF VIEW AND IGNORENCE. IF ONLY ONE ITEM OF THE MANY SHIPPED OVER AND BACK WAS DAMAGED IT IS UNFORTUNATE BUT REMARKABLE THAT THE DAMMAGE WAS SO SMALL. I PACKED MY ITEMS TO WITHSTAND NUCLEAR WAR, TSUNAMI OR VOLCANIC ERUPTION SO THEY CAME THRU OK, BUT BAGGAGE HANDLERS CAN BE WORSE THEN ANY OF THOSE. IN FACT THE EXHIBIT WAS A REMARKABLE AND WORTHY ACCOMPLISHMENT WITH ALL THE MISTAKES AND UNINTENTIONAL OMMISSIONS AND THINGS CONSIDERED AS INSULTS OR MISLEADING ERRORS. THE FACT THAT A SMALL MUSEUM MADE THIS ATTEMPT AND FOLLOWED THRU TO COMPLETION SUCH AN EXHIBIT AND HOPEFULLY THE CATALOG, IS WORTHY OF PRAISE AND APPRECIATION. HOW MANY EXHIBITS OF ETHINOGRAPHIC WEAPONS HAVE THERE BEEN IN RECENT YEARS? ANTONIO WAS UNDER MORE PRESSURE FROM THE EXHIBIT AND LACK OF TIME AND HELP THAN ANY ONE MAN SHOULD BE AND ALSO HAD MORE IRONS IN THE FIRE AS WELL AS HIS OWN LIFE TO LEAD. IF I HAD BEEN IN HIS SHOES I WOULD HAVE RAN OFF TO QUILIN CHINA AND LIVED IN A CAVE AS A HERMIT FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE AND THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO EXHIBIT. SO I UNDERSTAND AND APPRECIATE ALL HIS HARD WORK EVEN IF IT IS NOT PERFECTION. ANTONIO HAS ALWAYS CAME ACROSS AS A GENTELMAN TO ME BUT CONSIDERING THE STRESS AND HARD WORK HE HAS BEEN UNDER A HARSH RESPONCE TO THE EXHIBIT WOULD BE LIKE A SLAP IN THE FACE SO WOULD NO DOUBT DRAW A HOT RESPONCE. WHICH WOULD THEN BE REGRETTED LATER. I HAVE CERTIANLY DONE IT A FEW TIMES MYSELF WHEN I THOUGHT I HAD DONE MY BEST AND SOMEONE TRASHED MY WORK AND SAID IT WAS WORTHLESS I WAS SUPRIZED AND THEN FURIOUS. I DON'T MIND SOMEONE TELLING ME WHERE I GO WRONG AND HELPING ME TO CORRECT IT BUT AM NOT TOLERANT OF ATTACKS ON MY INTELLEGENCE WITH NO RECOMENDATIONS ON HOW TO CORRECT IT. IT WOULD BE GOOD IF THE INCORRECT INFORMATION IN THE CATALOG COULD BE CORRECTED AND THE MUSEUM SHOULD RESPOND TO ANYONE WHO TAKES THE TIME TO POINT OUT MISTAKES EVEN IF IT IS TOO LATE TO CORRECT THEM AS A PROFESSIONAL COURTSY. BUT SOMETIMES THAT DOSEN'T HAPPEN FAST DUE TO LACK OF TIME INTERPRETERS OR FUNDS. PERHAPS SOME OF OUR AMERICAN PHILIPPINO MEMBERS COULD WORK WITH A MUSEUM IN THE PHILIPPINES AND ORGANIZE AN EXHIBIT THERE. WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO MORE ACCURATE INFORMATION AND WE COULD GET TO SEE SOME OF THEIR COLLECTIONS. WE AS COLLECTORS ARE INTERESTED IN ALL THE CULTURES OUR WEAPONS COME FROM, BUT TO HAVE PRIDE IN THE CULTURE IT MUST BE YOUR OWN. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT BLOOD OR PRIDE IT IS EASY TO MISUNDERSTAND AND CONSIDER THINGS UNIMPORTANT AND CAUSE HARD FEELINGS WITH THOSE WHO CONSIDER THEM AS VERY IMPORTANT. PLEASE TRY TO FORGIVE OUR IGNORENCE AND LACK OF SENSITIVITY AS WE NEVER MEAN TO INSULT AND WE WILL ALSO TRY TO STAY COOL IF YOU UNKNOWINGLY TROD ON OUR TOES. SO I FOR ONE AM WILLING TO FORGIVE ANY MISTAKES OR OMISSIONS AS I FEEL IT IS BETTER TO HAVE HAD AND PARTICIPATED IN THE EXHIBIT THAN TO HAVE HAD NONE AT ALL.

29th December 2006, 11:31 PM	#8
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I'm traveling and responding on my PDA. I need some time and a laptop to digest some of this. Until then, I'm locking this thread. Everyone please cool down.