Plain Jane Yataghan Origin Requested

RobT · 8th January 2021, 01:32 AM

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone could tell me where this no frills Yataghan comes from. Perhaps the design on the sheath throat (which looks to me like a bird in a tree) is a clue. The blade measures 19.125" (48.5775cm) and has a slight T-rib. There are no maker's marks or other inscriptions. The hilt scales are wood that have been painted black (now very worn). Three steel rivets secure the scales to the tang. The backstrap (top part missing) between the scales is brass, as is the ferrule which also shows the remains of a very plain ricasso. Despite the obvious wear, blade and hilt are still quite solid. The sheath is wood with a brass throat and a black painted fabric center section. The fabric & the wood are both in poor condition and the brass throat shows an area where a suspension lug may have been. I believe that the bottom section of the sheath also had a brass covering which unfortunately is now missing. Its unprepossessing nature notwithstanding, the sword is very well balanced and pleasing in form. In use it would be as effective as more Princely Yataghans.

Sincerely,
RobT

RobT · 5th February 2021, 03:41 PM

Hi All,

Last month I posted a request for info on the origin of this yataghan. Despite over 500 views there has been zero response. I have been a Viking Sword member for a long time and this is the first yataghan post that I can recall seeing that didn't generate a healthy response. I find it hard to believe that this piece is so odd that nobody has seen its like before. It is a very well made blade despite its lack of bling. I am currently cataloguing my collection and would appreciate origin info so I can correctly categorize the piece. In my opinion, because of the member knowledge base, Viking Sword is far and away the best source for reliable info of this type. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
RobT

David R · 5th February 2021, 03:53 PM

Normally these are identified by the inscription, or by distinctive mounts, having neither this is impossible to place. Sorry mate, sometimes that happens.

Athanase · 5th February 2021, 05:54 PM

Hello,

I am not at all a Yatagan specialist but I acquired one 1 week ago in a batch of Indonesian weapons. It is also very simple, very similar in construction, except that the brass of the handle is replaced by a white metal with the same zigzag decoration as the copper of the scabbard (I have also a Bichaq with the same construction). The only visible mark is the date 1877 marked in small dotted lines on each side of the blade. I suspect my specimen was not made for a soldier, but to be sold as a souvenir.

RobT · 6th February 2021, 08:57 PM

David R
You have a good point. Save for the motif on the sheath throat, my piece is certainly without any inscription or decoration. So, unless somebody knows of an area where yataghans are made without embellishment, I may be out of luck.

Athanase,
I don't know what your yataghan looks like but I don't believe the one I have was meant as a souvenir for the following reasons: The blade on mine is well forged and well shaped and the hilt is solidly mounted to the tang. The wear patterns on all components indicate use and carry. And finally, there is an absence of any bling. Why would anyone go to all the hard work of making a combat ready item as a souvenir and then not provide it with the eye candy (no matter how tawdry) designed to catch the tourist's eye? Perhaps you could provide a photo of your yataghan for examination and comment? You may have judged it too harshly.
Sincerely,
RobT

Athanase · 6th February 2021, 11:32 PM

I re-looked at the photos of your Yatagan, and indeed your blade is much better than mine. But the scabbard the same construction. Of course when I was talking about a souvenir weapon I was talking about mine. I'm trying to take pictures on Sunday.

Kubur · 7th February 2021, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R

Normally these are identified by the inscription, or by distinctive mounts, having neither this is impossible to place. Sorry mate, sometimes that happens.

Of course, it's an authentic 19th c yataghan, but as David said it's almost impossible to say more than that.

Your yataghan could be from anywhere, between the Balkans, Turkey or even Syria...

You should post a good photo of the blade, I cannot see any back edge / flat spine on your photos...

Athanase · 7th February 2021, 04:33 PM

Pictures of my Yatagan for comparison.
I just cleaned the scabbard with soap to remove the dust, but I haven't touched anything yet.

The scabbard is made of wood covered with leather sewn with copper wire and covered with thin sheet of engraved copper. The tip of the scabbard is made by a copper thimble. The handle is in horn and white metal. The blade is made of steel, maximum 3mm thick. It is a little sharp, but the groove is very badly hollowed out.

RobT · 7th February 2021, 05:45 PM

Kubur
I have made close-ups of the spine at hilt, T-Rib and tip of my blade. Caliper measurement of the spine at hilt measures 11/32" (between 8 & 9mm, .34375 decimal inches). The T-Rib tapers distally from the hilt and ends 1-7/8" (44.45mm, 1.875 decimal inches) before the tip. I can't recall ever having seen a yataghan with a T-Rib before but maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention (they are usually so darn expensive that I only glance at them).

Athanase,
Your English appears to be quite good. Are you sure the spine on yours is only 3mm? I ask this because that is well under 1/8" and otherwise, your blade looks OK to me. Certainly, based on the photos alone without the measurement, I would be inclined to buy it if the price were right.

Sincerely,
RobT

gp · 16th July 2022, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobT

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone could tell me where this no frills Yataghan comes from. Perhaps the design on the sheath throat (which looks to me like a bird in a tree) is a clue. The blade measures 19.125" (48.5775cm) and has a slight T-rib. There are no maker's marks or other inscriptions. The hilt scales are wood that have been painted black (now very worn). Three steel rivets secure the scales to the tang. The backstrap (top part missing) between the scales is brass, as is the ferrule which also shows the remains of a very plain ricasso. Despite the obvious wear, blade and hilt are still quite solid. The sheath is wood with a brass throat and a black painted fabric center section. The fabric & the wood are both in poor condition and the brass throat shows an area where a suspension lug may have been. I believe that the bottom section of the sheath also had a brass covering which unfortunately is now missing. Its unprepossessing nature notwithstanding, the sword is very well balanced and pleasing in form. In use it would be as effective as more Princely Yataghans.

Sincerely,
RobT

my apologies that I did not see this thread before, so hence this late reaction:

this is a Balkan weapon, either call it a small yataghan or big bichaq from the former Yu.
These are often found on offer in Croatia and sometimes in Bosnia and are crude and less fancy than the Bosnian white (bone ) ones.
I refer to my article some time ago explaining the yataghan thread

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ataghan&page=2

in # 64
Unless it is a marriage between scabbard from ex Yu and a Yataghan from a neighbouring country; but why do that?

It is most likely made for a footsolder or some one from the country side or border guard ( granicar ). The scabbard is the give away: you can compare it with the scabbards in the many pics on bichaqs and yataghans of my threads.
Although a little poorly executed (perhaps an apprentice or not a pro trying his best) . The black paint might be protection for the grip or just to give it a black horn look a like.
Nevertheless a nice piece for each collection!
Piece of advise: the grip and scabbard (non metal piece) need some restoration to avoid drying out and detoriation.

8th January 2021, 01:32 AM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 452	Plain Jane Yataghan Origin Requested Hi All, I was wondering if anyone could tell me where this no frills Yataghan comes from. Perhaps the design on the sheath throat (which looks to me like a bird in a tree) is a clue. The blade measures 19.125" (48.5775cm) and has a slight T-rib. There are no maker's marks or other inscriptions. The hilt scales are wood that have been painted black (now very worn). Three steel rivets secure the scales to the tang. The backstrap (top part missing) between the scales is brass, as is the ferrule which also shows the remains of a very plain ricasso. Despite the obvious wear, blade and hilt are still quite solid. The sheath is wood with a brass throat and a black painted fabric center section. The fabric & the wood are both in poor condition and the brass throat shows an area where a suspension lug may have been. I believe that the bottom section of the sheath also had a brass covering which unfortunately is now missing. Its unprepossessing nature notwithstanding, the sword is very well balanced and pleasing in form. In use it would be as effective as more Princely Yataghans. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

5th February 2021, 03:41 PM	#2
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 452	Nothing?! Hi All, Last month I posted a request for info on the origin of this yataghan. Despite over 500 views there has been zero response. I have been a Viking Sword member for a long time and this is the first yataghan post that I can recall seeing that didn't generate a healthy response. I find it hard to believe that this piece is so odd that nobody has seen its like before. It is a very well made blade despite its lack of bling. I am currently cataloguing my collection and would appreciate origin info so I can correctly categorize the piece. In my opinion, because of the member knowledge base, Viking Sword is far and away the best source for reliable info of this type. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, RobT

6th February 2021, 08:57 PM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 452	Thanks For The Responses David R You have a good point. Save for the motif on the sheath throat, my piece is certainly without any inscription or decoration. So, unless somebody knows of an area where yataghans are made without embellishment, I may be out of luck. Athanase, I don't know what your yataghan looks like but I don't believe the one I have was meant as a souvenir for the following reasons: The blade on mine is well forged and well shaped and the hilt is solidly mounted to the tang. The wear patterns on all components indicate use and carry. And finally, there is an absence of any bling. Why would anyone go to all the hard work of making a combat ready item as a souvenir and then not provide it with the eye candy (no matter how tawdry) designed to catch the tourist's eye? Perhaps you could provide a photo of your yataghan for examination and comment? You may have judged it too harshly. Sincerely, RobT

7th February 2021, 04:33 PM	#8
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 403	Pictures of my Yatagan for comparison. I just cleaned the scabbard with soap to remove the dust, but I haven't touched anything yet. The scabbard is made of wood covered with leather sewn with copper wire and covered with thin sheet of engraved copper. The tip of the scabbard is made by a copper thimble. The handle is in horn and white metal. The blade is made of steel, maximum 3mm thick. It is a little sharp, but the groove is very badly hollowed out. Attached Images

7th February 2021, 05:45 PM	#9
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 452	Spine, T-Rib & Tip Close-ups Kubur I have made close-ups of the spine at hilt, T-Rib and tip of my blade. Caliper measurement of the spine at hilt measures 11/32" (between 8 & 9mm, .34375 decimal inches). The T-Rib tapers distally from the hilt and ends 1-7/8" (44.45mm, 1.875 decimal inches) before the tip. I can't recall ever having seen a yataghan with a T-Rib before but maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention (they are usually so darn expensive that I only glance at them). Athanase, Your English appears to be quite good. Are you sure the spine on yours is only 3mm? I ask this because that is well under 1/8" and otherwise, your blade looks OK to me. Certainly, based on the photos alone without the measurement, I would be inclined to buy it if the price were right. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

5th February 2021, 03:53 PM	#3
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,051	Normally these are identified by the inscription, or by distinctive mounts, having neither this is impossible to place. Sorry mate, sometimes that happens.

5th February 2021, 05:54 PM	#4
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 403	Hello, I am not at all a Yatagan specialist but I acquired one 1 week ago in a batch of Indonesian weapons. It is also very simple, very similar in construction, except that the brass of the handle is replaced by a white metal with the same zigzag decoration as the copper of the scabbard (I have also a Bichaq with the same construction). The only visible mark is the date 1877 marked in small dotted lines on each side of the blade. I suspect my specimen was not made for a soldier, but to be sold as a souvenir.

6th February 2021, 11:32 PM	#6
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 403	I re-looked at the photos of your Yatagan, and indeed your blade is much better than mine. But the scabbard the same construction. Of course when I was talking about a souvenir weapon I was talking about mine. I'm trying to take pictures on Sunday.