Another Philippine Sword

Robert · 26th November 2005, 06:20 PM

This is another sword (Ilongo?) that I acquired recently and would like to know what it is called and possible age. At some point the hilt has come loose and when put back on someone put the guard on in reverse. This I hope should be easy to take care of.

All comments are welcome.

Blade length is 17-7/8 inch
Width at guard is 1 inch at widest point is 1-11/16 inches
Blade at thickest point is 1/4 inch
Grip length is 5-5/8 inches

RobT · 26th November 2005, 08:30 PM

Hi all,
Well, this is a good test to see if I've learned my lessons from this forum correctly. Given the sheath throat decoration, I would say the piece is Visayan and, given the similarity to the standard diety hilt from the isle of Panay, it is probably from there. If I'm wrong I'm sure the Philippine experts will come on board and set the record straight.
Sincerely,
RobT

Battara · 26th November 2005, 08:48 PM

Oh no, RobT, you're right on the money

(wish I had some

) it's Panay alright.

Tim Simmons · 27th November 2005, 08:36 AM

I think the pommel looks great. I like the way the brow ends in a curl, I must keep an eye out for one of these. Tim

Robert · 27th November 2005, 03:30 PM

Thank you all for your comments so far. What I am really trying to find out though is what this type of sword is called and its possible age, late 19th century, early 20th century (pre WWII) or mid 20th century (post WWII)? Thank you all again for your help.

Robert

Ian · 27th November 2005, 03:38 PM

Robert:

Zel is the authority on these pieces and I'm sure he will give you a considered answer about the name and age of this one. Based on some of his previous comments, I think the term for this one is a tenegre from Panay. As for age, mid-20th C. would seem about right.

As you note, the guard appears to have been mounted upside down, suggesting the hilt has been replaced or reattached at some time. The longer section is usually a partial knuckle bow, mostly on 20th C. pieces.

I look forward to Zel's comments.

Ian.

Robert · 28th November 2005, 03:27 AM

Ian,
Could you possible tell me where I could get pitch to reset the blade into the hilt? I've removed it to put the guard in the right position and would like to use pitch to reset the blade. I'm thinking that at some point in time it came loose and who ever it was that put it back together used Elmer's Glue to put it back in one piece. Thankfully they didn't use epoxy instead! As to the age I was thinking that with the ferrell being made of brass sheeting formed and soldiered to form it that it was hopefully pre WWII.

Robert

Ian · 28th November 2005, 12:37 PM

Robert:

I've sent you a PM.

A brazed brass ferrule would likely indicate pre-WWII manufacture.

Ian.

Spunjer · 28th November 2005, 11:12 PM

....or Negros?

themorningstar · 29th November 2005, 12:20 AM

its a sundang....

grrr...

Rick · 29th November 2005, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themorningstar

its a sundang....

grrr...

Uhm , can you be any more specific ?
Seems like a pretty generic term .
A sundang from Panay , Negros ?

nechesh · 29th November 2005, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themorningstar

its a sundang....

grrr...

I certainly wouldn't argue that this blade might be referred to as a sundang in some places, but sundang, it would seem, is a rather general term for a sword and refers also to the kris as well as other sword length blades of the region. Surely there is a more specific name for this type of weapon. Why are you so vigorously opposed to the term "tenegre" which Ian and i believe Zel are apt to use? It seems to me that to call this blade a sundang will only add to the confusion.

zelbone · 29th November 2005, 02:21 AM

I wouldn't get hung-up with names....

...it's a sundang

but I'd call it a talibong

LabanTayo · 29th November 2005, 02:54 AM

I'd call it a Talibong too, from either Panay or Negros.
There was a really cool one in an auction yesterday, but alas....I didnt win it...

So I can't show you pictures.
Talibong seems to be a good generic name for any Visayan sword.

themorningstar · 29th November 2005, 08:11 PM

sorry.. i'll be more specific.... its a pinuti....

themorningstar · 29th November 2005, 08:16 PM

i'm not opposed to using the term tenegre.... but i only use it for sundang that are tenegre...
i use the term sundang because that is what it is and accepted as in the visayas... as well as pinuti...
very well then.. i'll get more specific... i'll use the term they use where this particular blade is from in the visayas... it's an old name....
patalim...
-enjoy!

LabanTayo · 29th November 2005, 09:15 PM

yummy!!!
crispy pata - lim!!!!

there are so many names for visayan swords, depending on their location of origin, that its easier to call them generic terms, like sundang or talibong.

tenegre is a localized term, as is binangon, pinuti, talibon, talibong, ginungting, sinamak, inasal (i'm hungry, can't you tell) and so on. if you know the location, you'll know the name.

nechesh · 29th November 2005, 11:57 PM

Names are, of course, relative. A rose by any other name.....etc., etc. What i think we need to establish is a common understanding so that we, as a group of collectors, can understand each other when we say i've got this talibong or what do you know about sundangs. Personally, even if sundang is the proper term used in Visayas, i would hesitate to use it myself, at least on it's own, for fear that someone would think i was referring to a kris or some other sword. On it's own it's a fairly useless term. Usually when i hear that word used to discribe a kris it is used in conjuction with the word kris as "kris sundang". The bottom line is that we communicate and understand each other.

Battara · 30th November 2005, 01:10 AM

"It's a floor wax!"

"No it's a desert topping!..."

(Saturday Night Live)

Robert · 30th November 2005, 01:37 AM

Well, at least you didn't call it a "Bass-O-Matic"

26th November 2005, 06:20 PM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Another Philippine Sword This is another sword (Ilongo?) that I acquired recently and would like to know what it is called and possible age. At some point the hilt has come loose and when put back on someone put the guard on in reverse. This I hope should be easy to take care of. All comments are welcome. Blade length is 17-7/8 inch Width at guard is 1 inch at widest point is 1-11/16 inches Blade at thickest point is 1/4 inch Grip length is 5-5/8 inches Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 26th November 2005 at 07:32 PM.

26th November 2005, 08:30 PM	#2
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 452	Panay Hi all, Well, this is a good test to see if I've learned my lessons from this forum correctly. Given the sheath throat decoration, I would say the piece is Visayan and, given the similarity to the standard diety hilt from the isle of Panay, it is probably from there. If I'm wrong I'm sure the Philippine experts will come on board and set the record straight. Sincerely, RobT

29th November 2005, 02:54 AM	#14
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	I'd call it a Talibong too, from either Panay or Negros. There was a really cool one in an auction yesterday, but alas....I didnt win it... So I can't show you pictures. Talibong seems to be a good generic name for any Visayan sword. Last edited by LabanTayo; 29th November 2005 at 03:22 AM.

26th November 2005, 08:48 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Oh no, RobT, you're right on the money (wish I had some ) it's Panay alright.

27th November 2005, 08:36 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	I think the pommel looks great. I like the way the brow ends in a curl, I must keep an eye out for one of these. Tim

27th November 2005, 03:30 PM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Thank you all for your comments so far. What I am really trying to find out though is what this type of sword is called and its possible age, late 19th century, early 20th century (pre WWII) or mid 20th century (post WWII)? Thank you all again for your help. Robert

27th November 2005, 03:38 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,029	Robert: Zel is the authority on these pieces and I'm sure he will give you a considered answer about the name and age of this one. Based on some of his previous comments, I think the term for this one is a tenegre from Panay. As for age, mid-20th C. would seem about right. As you note, the guard appears to have been mounted upside down, suggesting the hilt has been replaced or reattached at some time. The longer section is usually a partial knuckle bow, mostly on 20th C. pieces. I look forward to Zel's comments. Ian.

28th November 2005, 03:27 AM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Ian, Could you possible tell me where I could get pitch to reset the blade into the hilt? I've removed it to put the guard in the right position and would like to use pitch to reset the blade. I'm thinking that at some point in time it came loose and who ever it was that put it back together used Elmer's Glue to put it back in one piece. Thankfully they didn't use epoxy instead! As to the age I was thinking that with the ferrell being made of brass sheeting formed and soldiered to form it that it was hopefully pre WWII. Robert

28th November 2005, 12:37 PM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,029	Robert: I've sent you a PM. A brazed brass ferrule would likely indicate pre-WWII manufacture. Ian.

28th November 2005, 11:12 PM	#9
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	....or Negros?

29th November 2005, 12:20 AM	#10
themorningstar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 55	its a sundang.... grrr...

29th November 2005, 02:21 AM	#13
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	I wouldn't get hung-up with names.... ...it's a sundang but I'd call it a talibong

29th November 2005, 08:11 PM	#15
themorningstar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 55	sorry.. i'll be more specific.... its a pinuti....

29th November 2005, 08:16 PM	#16
themorningstar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 55	i'm not opposed to using the term tenegre.... but i only use it for sundang that are tenegre... i use the term sundang because that is what it is and accepted as in the visayas... as well as pinuti... very well then.. i'll get more specific... i'll use the term they use where this particular blade is from in the visayas... it's an old name.... patalim... -enjoy!

29th November 2005, 09:15 PM	#17
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	yummy!!! crispy pata - lim!!!! there are so many names for visayan swords, depending on their location of origin, that its easier to call them generic terms, like sundang or talibong. tenegre is a localized term, as is binangon, pinuti, talibon, talibong, ginungting, sinamak, inasal (i'm hungry, can't you tell) and so on. if you know the location, you'll know the name.

29th November 2005, 11:57 PM	#18
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Names are, of course, relative. A rose by any other name.....etc., etc. What i think we need to establish is a common understanding so that we, as a group of collectors, can understand each other when we say i've got this talibong or what do you know about sundangs. Personally, even if sundang is the proper term used in Visayas, i would hesitate to use it myself, at least on it's own, for fear that someone would think i was referring to a kris or some other sword. On it's own it's a fairly useless term. Usually when i hear that word used to discribe a kris it is used in conjuction with the word kris as "kris sundang". The bottom line is that we communicate and understand each other.

30th November 2005, 01:10 AM	#19
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	"It's a floor wax!" "No it's a desert topping!..." (Saturday Night Live)

30th November 2005, 01:37 AM	#20
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Well, at least you didn't call it a "Bass-O-Matic"