Early Sica for Comment and Questions

vilhelmsson · 10th March 2019, 11:19 PM

Dear All,

I recently acquired the below knife. I believe it is a Sica. It was sold as a 1st-2nd CE century Celtic-Roman border knife. The bronze inlays closest to the tang is described as and looks like a stylized humanoid figure.

I was wondering if someone knows more about the bronze inlays, or knows more about these knives, or can point me to scholarly research on these knives and scholarly research on the meaning of the bronze inlays?

fernando · 11th March 2019, 09:39 AM

I sincerely hope you get some answers on such extraordinary blade, vilhelmsson

.

vilhelmsson · 11th March 2019, 08:36 PM

Thank you Fernando. It is quite beautiful. But it has a more sinister beauty than I was expecting when I purchased it. Perhaps it is the dark patina, and not its history, that contributes to its sinister aura. But I keep it in a closed cabinet for planned observation, only.

The wikipedia page for the Sica is interesting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sica), but I'd question why anyone would wield these short blades as a primary weapon when a spear would be cheaper and safer. And when the Romans allege that the Sica is the blade of assassins, I'd assume that's less a measure of the blade's use and more a political measure of what the Romans thought of the peoples associated with the blade.

I also read, though I now forget where, that these blades would be used in themed gladiator matches. But it was always the unlucky fighter who got the Sica because it wasn't as useful as virtually any other weapon.

The bronze inlays make me think that this is less a weapon of war or combat, and more a weapon of ritual or status because a bronze inlay must have been precious to the original owner. And bronze inlays, as the missing pieces indicate, are delicate.

fernando · 11th March 2019, 09:15 PM

Have you visited THIS THREAD ?

Battara · 11th March 2019, 10:16 PM

Uh........Fernando, this link didn't work for me.

vilhelmsson · 12th March 2019, 12:39 AM

It didn't work for me either, but I just dropped the url right in and it worked (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=sica).

Fascinating thread. If my example was a 2nd century Jewish zealot assassin's tool or an unlucky gladiator's weapon, well . . . That's pretty neat.

It would be nice to learn more about the inlay, if possible. But that could just be knowledge we don't have.

fernando · 12th March 2019, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Uh........Fernando, this link didn't work for me.

Vilhemsson got it right, José. I forgot to delete the default (double) URL that appears when inserting hyperlinks.
It is corrected now.

Bob A · 12th March 2019, 11:28 PM

Not European, but the same concept from the other side of the world; here's a description from the seller:

Quote:

A Madurese celurit. This distinctively Madurese weapon has a terrifying reputation and has probably been responsible for more deaths by violence than any other weapon in the Indonesian catalogue of weaponry.There are a number of forms of the celurit, from a small household one that is used to prune garden shrubs, through to a massive one that is used to split firewood. Rural people in Madura and East Jawa are seldom without a celurit either dangling from the left hand or stuck into the back of their belt or trousers, as a consequence, if a difference of opinion should escalate, the weapon that is always close at hand is the celurit.

During the purges of Communists in the 1960's celurits were used extensively for mass execution. Suspected Communists and Communist sympathisers --- along with ethnic Chinese and a lot of people whose only sin
was to be disliked for some reason or other, or who were owed money --- were lined up and the executioners walked along the back of the line cutting throats. These mass killings took place during 1965 and 1966 and the
death toll is reckoned to have been somewhere between one million and three million people.

The celurit offered here is the pure weapon form, it has a robust pamor blade, the hardwood hilt fits into a socket, and it comes with an embossed leather sheath.

Blade length across the curve 10.5" (265mm) overall length across the curve 20" (505MM)

[IMG]http://[/IMG]

vilhelmsson · 12th March 2019, 11:56 PM

Bob, Pretty blade! Gruesome history.

fernando · 13th March 2019, 11:55 AM

vilhelmsson, you have two private message in your PM box.

10th March 2019, 11:19 PM	#1
vilhelmsson Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Bay Area Posts: 57	Early Sica for Comment and Questions Dear All, I recently acquired the below knife. I believe it is a Sica. It was sold as a 1st-2nd CE century Celtic-Roman border knife. The bronze inlays closest to the tang is described as and looks like a stylized humanoid figure. I was wondering if someone knows more about the bronze inlays, or knows more about these knives, or can point me to scholarly research on these knives and scholarly research on the meaning of the bronze inlays? Attached Images

11th March 2019, 09:15 PM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Have you visited THIS THREAD ? Last edited by fernando; 12th March 2019 at 09:01 AM.

11th March 2019, 09:39 AM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	I sincerely hope you get some answers on such extraordinary blade, vilhelmsson .

11th March 2019, 08:36 PM	#3
vilhelmsson Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Bay Area Posts: 57	Thank you Fernando. It is quite beautiful. But it has a more sinister beauty than I was expecting when I purchased it. Perhaps it is the dark patina, and not its history, that contributes to its sinister aura. But I keep it in a closed cabinet for planned observation, only. The wikipedia page for the Sica is interesting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sica), but I'd question why anyone would wield these short blades as a primary weapon when a spear would be cheaper and safer. And when the Romans allege that the Sica is the blade of assassins, I'd assume that's less a measure of the blade's use and more a political measure of what the Romans thought of the peoples associated with the blade. I also read, though I now forget where, that these blades would be used in themed gladiator matches. But it was always the unlucky fighter who got the Sica because it wasn't as useful as virtually any other weapon. The bronze inlays make me think that this is less a weapon of war or combat, and more a weapon of ritual or status because a bronze inlay must have been precious to the original owner. And bronze inlays, as the missing pieces indicate, are delicate.

11th March 2019, 10:16 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Uh........Fernando, this link didn't work for me.

12th March 2019, 12:39 AM	#6
vilhelmsson Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Bay Area Posts: 57	It didn't work for me either, but I just dropped the url right in and it worked (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=sica). Fascinating thread. If my example was a 2nd century Jewish zealot assassin's tool or an unlucky gladiator's weapon, well . . . That's pretty neat. It would be nice to learn more about the inlay, if possible. But that could just be knowledge we don't have.

12th March 2019, 11:56 PM	#9
vilhelmsson Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Bay Area Posts: 57	Bob, Pretty blade! Gruesome history.

13th March 2019, 11:55 AM	#10
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	vilhelmsson, you have two private message in your PM box.