Just ended on Ebay ---Jambiya

kahnjar1 · 12th February 2012, 05:59 AM

This just ended. What do we make of style etc. Strange "yemeni type??" hilt. Omani type scabbard but not Omani I suspect.
Thoughts anyone?
Pics are sellers.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 12th February 2012, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

This just ended. What do we make of style etc. Strange "yemeni type??" hilt. Omani type scabbard but not Omani I suspect.
Thoughts anyone?
Pics are sellers.

Salaams kahnjar1 ~ Not Omani. Saudia scabbard. Dagger Yemeni or Saudia though looking at the hilt the floral central wrap is identical to the belt and it looks like one original set therefor I move toward the Saudia style entirely for which I shall find the name presently ...ah yes...~ Habaabi from Saudia close to the Oman border~ Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

kahnjar1 · 12th February 2012, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams kahnjar1 ~ Not Omani. Saudia scabbard. Dagger Yemeni or Saudia though looking at the hilt the floral central wrap is identical to the belt and it looks like one original set therefor I move toward the Saudia style entirely for which I shall find the name presently ...ah yes...~ Habaabi from Saudia close to the Oman border~ Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Ibrahiim. These two were identified by you as being Habaabi and the hilts IMHO are quite different from that shown on the item in question.
Regards

A.alnakkas · 12th February 2012, 07:38 AM

Hmmm, I do think this is saudi mainly due to the silver octagonal decoration. 3 of my saudi items have the same design.. will show pictures soon.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 12th February 2012, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Salaams Ibrahiim. These two were identified by you as being Habaabi and the hilts IMHO are quite different from that shown on the item in question.
Regards

Salaams kahnjar1 ~ yes interesting ... There are several from that area... The big difference between them and Omani Khanjars is in the fatter hilts almost always with a band around the middle..and almost always with multiple rings and a more robust broader crown. The weird hilt poses a bit of a problem..and on the two with all the leather below the belt I will clarify as Im not convinced there isnt some Omani work amongst the designs possibly pointing to Salalah ...In about 5 minutes since I am speaking right now with people from both those regions so I will get the definitive on these daggers ... any minute now...

The answer is Saudia. Habaabi... all. On the Saudia side of the Oman Saudia border..adjacent Dhofar/Yemen. I have to say there were some strange looks on the weird hilt job... As it stands there is little work done on the link between the Habaabi and Omani items. As you know the Omanis have two 7 ring (occasionally 8 !) derivatives in the Muscat Khanjar and the Royal Khanjar and in your collection several of these related weapons from Saudia.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 12th February 2012, 08:35 AM

Salaams Ibrahiim. These two were identified by you as being Habaabi and the hilts IMHO are quite different from that shown on the item in question.

Salaams Khanjar 1 The point is that these are very similar hilts though the pointed pommel style is one I have never seen before... The similarities in hilt design are ;
1. Fat hilts.
2. Central wrap.
3. Large button designs above and below the wrap.
4. Essentially similar shape.
5. Cuff more or less same.

As pointed out by Lofty the design on the pointed hilt is Saudia...

Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 16th February 2012, 08:12 AM

Salaams khanjar 1 ~ I spent a few hours in Muscat yesterday and was lucky enough to get into the souk before 3000 tourists off a cruise ship.. The souk is awash with Yemeni work. Amongst that ... (I will open a new thread actually as I have had in mind for a project on Oman Souks ...) I found a similar hilt to yours though it is likely to be Yemeni? and yours Saudia... though from a closely releted region.. The blade is a mystery to me. As a general note Yemeni work (and I assume Saudia work) often contains a lot of copper in the mixture... this is apparent in items from Yemen post 48 and whereby many of the Jewish artesans left for Israel and it was from that group we previously had seen excellent craftsmanship in purer silver. One would expect that a vibrant industry would have thus been exported and Israel would be turning out sizeable volumes of high quality silver work however as in the case of those Greek artesans(carpet makers) that left Turkey it did not happen and the craft suffered. Pre 48 Yemeni work is sought after and Jewish work caried out by a very few silver workers still in Yemen.. however the bulk of post 48 work is generally medium to low quality low grade mixtures with a greyish greenish tint that doesnt hold its shine at all well... The other big difference is in the method of making which tends to be casting... sand cast as opposed to hand crafted.

Good quality Yemeni work is always sought after and occasionally stunning items come out... There is, however, a huge load of low end work flooding into Oman right now as Yemen goes into freefall somewhat and I shall show this impact on my new thread. Meanwhile here is a similar hilt and I note you have like type on one of your other daggers.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

A.alnakkas · 23rd February 2012, 02:18 PM

Salams,

Looks like a yemeni hilt on a somali billao blade.

Btw, what I ment with octagonal (or is it hexagonal? xD) shapes I ment the small silver chips on the scabbard and hilt, not the hilt shape.

kahnjar1 · 23rd February 2012, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Salams,

Looks like a yemeni hilt on a somali billao blade.

Btw, what I ment with octagonal (or is it hexagonal? xD) shapes I ment the small silver chips on the scabbard and hilt, not the hilt shape.

I agree that the item shown by Ibrahiim is a combination of two completely different knives. The hilt is of the type usually associated with JIZAN daggers and is not flat like the item first posted here. This "combination" in my opinion has nothing to do with the original post, and I do not see the purpose of drifting off to the Omani souks, when the original thread was to try and get comment on a particular jambiya.
I am still interested to find out more about THAT one which was my reason for posting this thread. My feeling is that there is some "tourist" trait about the hilt, although the scabbard looks genuine enough.
Lofty....I assume you are refering to the diamond shaped wafers which are quite common on Yemeni scabbards?
Regards Stu

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 23rd February 2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I agree that the item shown by Ibrahiim is a combination of two completely different knives. The hilt is of the type usually associated with JIZAN daggers and is not flat like the item first posted here. This "combination" in my opinion has nothing to do with the original post, and I do not see the purpose of drifting off to the Omani souks, when the original thread was to try and get comment on a particular jambiya.
I am still interested to find out more about THAT one which was my reason for posting this thread. My feeling is that there is some "tourist" trait about the hilt, although the scabbard looks genuine enough.
Lofty....I assume you are refering to the diamond shaped wafers which are quite common on Yemeni scabbards?
Regards Stu

Salaams kahnjar1 ~ Yours does seem to be lower quality as you indicate "for the tourist market" and going by the appearance of low grade silver that may be the case, although, I do not recognise the hilt form except as I have compared in this thread by my previous post. Being the country next door to Yemen we are in a fine position to view work drifting from there and in particular at this difficult time.. I would have thought that practical on the ground research best achieved by getting into the various Omani Souks would have been beneficial to Forum and presumeably your understanding of the situation and going by the number of positive PM letters received I can vouch for that as true. Of course in so far as collectors are concerned souks are generally full of garbage with about 2 % collectible and the rest to be avoided. I think, however, that the flavour of the souk can be understood and most folks would like to have a look and for the collectors there is some stunning stuff... and for practical research along with museums there is no better place.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

kahnjar1 · 24th February 2012, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams kahnjar1 ~ Yours does seem to be lower quality as you indicate "for the tourist market" and going by the appearance of low grade silver that may be the case, although, I do not recognise the hilt form except as I have compared in this thread by my previous post. Being the country next door to Yemen we are in a fine position to view work drifting from there and in particular at this difficult time.. I would have thought that practical on the ground research best achieved by getting into the various Omani Souks would have been beneficial to Forum and presumeably your understanding of the situation and going by the number of positive PM letters received I can vouch for that as true. Of course in so far as collectors are concerned souks are generally full of garbage with about 2 % collectible and the rest to be avoided. I think, however, that the flavour of the souk can be understood and most folks would like to have a look and for the collectors there is some stunning stuff... and for practical research along with museums there is no better place.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

I absolutely agree that the Omani Souks hold interest, BUT what I was saying was that THIS thread was to elicet information about the particular Jambiya in question. There is another thread which has the subject of Omani Souks and I find this very interesting myself.....
What I find very frustrating is when an item is put up for comment and identification, and the direction of the thread changes and becomes a discussion on something else entirely.

Regards

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 25th February 2012, 03:36 PM

Salaams Khanjar 1~ Your dagger appears to have the scabbard of the Habaabi and an unknown hilt insofar as the pointed pommel arrangement. The decoration to the hilt is quite similar to Habaabi hilts with a collar and a decorative circular disc above and below. The Quba is typically fatter and comes off the curve before reaching 90 degrees it seems. Tantalising as in all Habaabis is the 7 ring design similar to the Royal Omani Khanjar rings and the Muscat variant. As the 3 regions i.e. Yemen, Oman and Saudia virtually join geographically the styles become closer together and more difficult to spot the differences. In Salalah for example they wear a simple dagger almost identical to the Yemeni variant and as seen in the Habaabi the 7 ringer is quite similar to Omans. This is natural in terms of geography and from the Human standpoint Jebali tribes straddle the border and wander largely freely to and fro. The situation with the Saudia Habaabi is much more convoluted I suspect and needs further research.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

12th February 2012, 05:59 AM	#1
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,729	Just ended on Ebay ---Jambiya This just ended. What do we make of style etc. Strange "yemeni type??" hilt. Omani type scabbard but not Omani I suspect. Thoughts anyone? Pics are sellers. Attached Images

16th February 2012, 08:12 AM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams khanjar 1 ~ I spent a few hours in Muscat yesterday and was lucky enough to get into the souk before 3000 tourists off a cruise ship.. The souk is awash with Yemeni work. Amongst that ... (I will open a new thread actually as I have had in mind for a project on Oman Souks ...) I found a similar hilt to yours though it is likely to be Yemeni? and yours Saudia... though from a closely releted region.. The blade is a mystery to me. As a general note Yemeni work (and I assume Saudia work) often contains a lot of copper in the mixture... this is apparent in items from Yemen post 48 and whereby many of the Jewish artesans left for Israel and it was from that group we previously had seen excellent craftsmanship in purer silver. One would expect that a vibrant industry would have thus been exported and Israel would be turning out sizeable volumes of high quality silver work however as in the case of those Greek artesans(carpet makers) that left Turkey it did not happen and the craft suffered. Pre 48 Yemeni work is sought after and Jewish work caried out by a very few silver workers still in Yemen.. however the bulk of post 48 work is generally medium to low quality low grade mixtures with a greyish greenish tint that doesnt hold its shine at all well... The other big difference is in the method of making which tends to be casting... sand cast as opposed to hand crafted. Good quality Yemeni work is always sought after and occasionally stunning items come out... There is, however, a huge load of low end work flooding into Oman right now as Yemen goes into freefall somewhat and I shall show this impact on my new thread. Meanwhile here is a similar hilt and I note you have like type on one of your other daggers. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Attached Images

12th February 2012, 07:38 AM	#4
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,338	Hmmm, I do think this is saudi mainly due to the silver octagonal decoration. 3 of my saudi items have the same design.. will show pictures soon.

12th February 2012, 08:35 AM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams Ibrahiim. These two were identified by you as being Habaabi and the hilts IMHO are quite different from that shown on the item in question. Salaams Khanjar 1 The point is that these are very similar hilts though the pointed pommel style is one I have never seen before... The similarities in hilt design are ; 1. Fat hilts. 2. Central wrap. 3. Large button designs above and below the wrap. 4. Essentially similar shape. 5. Cuff more or less same. As pointed out by Lofty the design on the pointed hilt is Saudia... Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

23rd February 2012, 02:18 PM	#8
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,338	Salams, Looks like a yemeni hilt on a somali billao blade. Btw, what I ment with octagonal (or is it hexagonal? xD) shapes I ment the small silver chips on the scabbard and hilt, not the hilt shape.

25th February 2012, 03:36 PM	#12
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams Khanjar 1~ Your dagger appears to have the scabbard of the Habaabi and an unknown hilt insofar as the pointed pommel arrangement. The decoration to the hilt is quite similar to Habaabi hilts with a collar and a decorative circular disc above and below. The Quba is typically fatter and comes off the curve before reaching 90 degrees it seems. Tantalising as in all Habaabis is the 7 ring design similar to the Royal Omani Khanjar rings and the Muscat variant. As the 3 regions i.e. Yemen, Oman and Saudia virtually join geographically the styles become closer together and more difficult to spot the differences. In Salalah for example they wear a simple dagger almost identical to the Yemeni variant and as seen in the Habaabi the 7 ringer is quite similar to Omans. This is natural in terms of geography and from the Human standpoint Jebali tribes straddle the border and wander largely freely to and fro. The situation with the Saudia Habaabi is much more convoluted I suspect and needs further research. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.