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Old 30th August 2018, 08:02 PM   #1
blindside
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Default giant tenegre

So this auction recently ended on Ebay (I didn't win it) and while the blade itself isn't terribly unusual, the size is. According to the description i the overall length of 35.5 inches, probably 10 inches longer than most other examples of tenegre that I have seen. Is this common, uncommon, was there a particular purpose for these longer blades, was the original owner just compensating for something?

Thank you,
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Last edited by Robert : 30th August 2018 at 11:49 PM. Reason: Link shows active auction items.
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Old 30th August 2018, 10:26 PM   #2
Battara
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Thatís one honking big tenegre! 😳
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Old 31st August 2018, 02:40 AM   #3
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I think the scabbard is a different than a standard tenegre scabbard also.

Thanks,
Leif
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Old 31st August 2018, 11:01 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindside
was the original owner just compensating for something?




I think the winner probably just compensating for something


Roland
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Old 31st August 2018, 04:46 PM   #5
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It's a very nice Tenegre, my guess would be that it coming from Ilooilo, Panay. Indeed a very large sword of this type. I have one wich is a little bit shorter with approx. 30". The scabbard is similar worked like by the one in question, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=tenegre
Very interesting sword, thank's for posting.
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Old 1st September 2018, 02:28 AM   #6
Battara
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Sajen is right again! This belongs to the lowlanders on Panay island.
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Old 4th September 2018, 10:41 AM   #7
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This looks to be a very blade-heavy weapon. While most tenegre do have a balance point several inches in front of the hilt, this one would have a balance point much further out than most. Difficult to wield it with any swiftness I would think.
Ian.
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Old 5th September 2018, 04:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland_M
I think the winner probably just compensating for something


Roland

It only took me a week to figure out the implication....

When you get it (assuming I read this right) I am very curious about its balance or if the blade used a more extreme distal taper than normal to pull back its balance point to something reasonable.
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Old 6th September 2018, 09:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindside
It only took me a week to figure out the implication....

When you get it (assuming I read this right) I am very curious about its balance or if the blade used a more extreme distal taper than normal to pull back its balance point to something reasonable.


Yes, as soon as i have it, i will answer every question. I'm quite experienced with sword testing, so i can make a proper statement about the combat value of the sword.
It got a couple of damages on the cutting edge and the point, it clearly has seen intense combat. Definitely no representation sword.

Roland
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Old 12th September 2018, 07:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindside
When you get it (assuming I read this right) I am very curious about its balance or if the blade used a more extreme distal taper than normal to pull back its balance point to something reasonable.


Yesterday the Tenegre arrived and it is very impressive.

The blade without the hilt is 68.5cm or 27" long and with 1060 grams very heavy. The thicknes at the handguard is 8mm and at the point 4mm.
The width at the handguard is 2cm and 5.5cm at the widest point.

The point of balance is around 24cm away from the handguard. Together with the weight of 1060 grams and without a compensating pommel this leads to a very heavy feeling. This is a blade designed for one decisive blow.
The cutting edge is still extremely sharp, this sword is able destroy everything, smaller swords, spears, shields and their owners.
The cutting edge is full of tiny damages and some deeper nicks caused by other swords.
The forging pattern looks very promising. As far as I can see now, it is a very fine laminated sword with a beautiful pattern.
The owner of this sword must had been very strong and tall, otherwise this sword cannot be controlled.

The head became almost black after oiling. With its fresh polished silver eyes the head looks almost hypnotic. This is a nice application of psychological war fare. The head with its glowing eyes will attract the opponents concentration at least a little bit, since the brain is "programed" to recognize human faces. In my opinion the monster head is a mixture of a human head and a snake, probably a cobra.



Roland
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Old 12th September 2018, 08:55 AM   #11
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Hi Roland,
I am curious to see it in person by my next visit. BTW, the monster head is called Bakunawa.
Best regards,
Detlef
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Old 12th September 2018, 03:30 PM   #12
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The difference in lighting and contrast really changed the characteristics of that pommel face, it went from smiling to a malevolent grin.
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Old 14th September 2018, 06:49 PM   #13
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Here is a picture of a similar piece (letter A) alongside other Visayan pieces for size comparison.

Picture comes from Migueldiaz.
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Old 15th September 2018, 03:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
Here is a picture of a similar piece (letter A) alongside other Visayan pieces for size comparison.

Picture comes from Migueldiaz.


Thank you for the picture, that's interesting. It seems, that these oversized blades are not too unusual.

I started immediately to grind and polish my Tenegre and 2/3 of the backside are already grinded. The steel is of outstanding quality, very well laminated, tough, hard and difficult to grind manually. Corrosion and pitting are very even spread and this is always a very good sign. It is also ever and ever again fascinating, that a grinded blade looks much bigger than in corroded condition.
My sword saw very intense combat and the warrior who owned it, was surely a famous one. It took a man like Dan Inosanto to control this sword. This sword is ideal to open a gap in enemys lines, like the European Bidenhander. It is impressive in every detail, the hilt, the weight, the balance, the sharpness and quality of craftmanship.

Perhaps I will make some pictures for the forum when it is done, in a few weeks of constantly working.

Roland
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Old 15th September 2018, 10:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland_M
My sword saw very intense combat and the warrior who owned it, was surely a famous one. It took a man like Dan Inosanto to control this sword.


A side comment to the Tenegre (which is, btw, amazing).

I study Filipino martial arts and I've had the pleasure of attending Guro Dan Inosanto's seminars a few times; he comes to my school twice a year. The man is amazing. Though in his 80s, he often moves faster than my eyes can see.

That said, he is a rather short and slender man. While I have no doubt he could something like this, he might still opt for something smaller. Or he might not. Who knows.

Either way, I hope I'm on his side ;-)

Have fun,
Leif
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Old 22nd September 2018, 04:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafngard
A side comment to the Tenegre (which is, btw, amazing).

I study Filipino martial arts and I've had the pleasure of attending Guro Dan Inosanto's seminars a few times; he comes to my school twice a year. The man is amazing. Though in his 80s, he often moves faster than my eyes can see.

That said, he is a rather short and slender man. While I have no doubt he could something like this, he might still opt for something smaller. Or he might not. Who knows.

Either way, I hope I'm on his side ;-)

Have fun,
Leif


I would give a lot for a seminar with Mr. Inosanto. Because of him and his videos on Youtube I learned Escrima with two sticks together.

The backside of the Tenegre is done. I made the first staining a few minutes ago. And my strange feeling was right. I hardly can believe it and if i am not totaly wrong, the blade is made of a massive piece of 1kg wootz! A very fine wootz. I took the picture with my cellphone, under precariuos light conditions, in reality it is much more beautiful.

Roland
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Old 23rd September 2018, 01:05 AM   #17
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Dear Roland:

Your observation that this may be a wootz blade is very interesting, but I think it is unlikely. I would like to see clearer pictures of the pattern, which in places appears (to my eyes) to show lamination. There are (almost) no examples of wootz being used among the Muslim groups of the southern Philippines, and those one or two that have been reported may not have been true wootz. There is no clear evidence that wootz was actually made in the Philippines, or the wider Malay world as far as I know.

Is it possible that you are looking at another form of crucible steel with dendritic features, such as a piece of Spanish steel that has been repurposed? The technical details of wootz are outside my field, so I shall defer to those with more expertise.

I will say, however, that the historical evidence of Philippine edged weapons made from wootz is scant to non-existent. Laminated blades are the norm, with later monosteel.

Regards,

Ian.
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Old 24th September 2018, 11:50 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian

I will say, however, that the historical evidence of Philippine edged weapons made from wootz is scant to non-existent. Laminated blades are the norm, with later monosteel.

Regards,

Ian.


Hello Ian,

what looks like laminations is a result of intense hammering of the cutting edge and differential hardening. I have no further pictures of the Tenegre right now but i have a picture which shows similar lines on a Persian Khorasani blade. More about wootz here: https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/a...str/ib_5_1.html
I think the raw-material was made and prepared (hammering, rolling) in India.
More pictures of the Tenegre, when i can demonstrate it without doubt, that we see wootz.

Roland
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