Khanjar for comment

Emanuel · 4th January 2007, 03:41 PM

I got this khanjar for Christmas...sort of

It's 12.5" long in scabbard, with a blade measuring 7". It looks a lot like kurdish khanjars, but there are some differences in construction. For one thing, the tang is held by a but screw or bolt instead of the studs on the face of the handle. The scabbard is also very different from the nicely tooled kurdish ones. It is wooden, coverd in black leather. Oddly, it has a brass collar and brass stitching that make it look like a khukri scabbard. Hence I'm thinking it could be Indian/Nepali/Afghan work. Then again, such a simple scabbard could very well have been made by Kurds.
The blade looks like it was extensively polished at some point. There are depressions on the surface of the blade - maybe due to power sanders used to remove pitting and rust.
Any comment would be most welcome.
Emanuel

- To clarify, the black horn khanjar with the two studs is the Kurdish one

BBJW · 4th January 2007, 03:49 PM

Except for the scabbard this looks much like a Balkan piece I have.

Emanuel · 4th January 2007, 04:27 PM

Looking at it, I think the scabbard is a replacement. There is a repair or alteration at the tip, perhaps indicating that a larger scabbard was cut down to fit this small blade. Its weird curvature would support this I think.
Could you post a pic of your balkan example? The ones on the Oriental-Arms website are more high-end it seems and most bear silver decorations.

ward · 4th January 2007, 06:09 PM

that scabbord looks like it was originally for a sword shamshir tulwar etc and and just cut.

Rick · 4th January 2007, 07:10 PM

Look at the radical curve the stitching takes at the tip.
Isn't that a little too radical a curve for a shamshir blade to take ?

BBJW · 4th January 2007, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

Looking at it, I think the scabbard is a replacement. There is a repair or alteration at the tip, perhaps indicating that a larger scabbard was cut down to fit this small blade. Its weird curvature would support this I think.
Could you post a pic of your balkan example? The ones on the Oriental-Arms website are more high-end it seems and most bear silver decorations.

Notice that the scabbard has a sewing thimble on the tip.

Emanuel · 5th January 2007, 02:24 AM

Thanks for the pic!
I can see the resemblance...but your scabbard has geometric motifs tooled into the leather and wood it seems, and the nib at the tip is much like my own kurdish khajar.
Now that I look at this weird scabbard, it looks like it's coated in pitch or something to make it hard...it isn't bear leather like on my khukri scabbards.

-some more comparative pics...
Emanuel

BBJW · 5th January 2007, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

Thanks for the pic!
I can see the resemblance...but your scabbard has geometric motifs tooled into the leather and wood it seems, and the nib at the tip is much like my own kurdish khajar.
Now that I look at this weird scabbard, it looks like it's coated in pitch or something to make it hard...it isn't bear leather like on my khukri scabbards.

-some more comparative pics...
Emanuel

Bear leather??? I have many kukris and always thought they were yak, sheep, or goat leather. Please post one of bear leather.

bj

spiral · 5th January 2007, 10:11 AM

Kukri scabbards were usualy buffalo or goat leather, but I have seen some leather I dont recognise as well, which probably includes yak,monkey, etc.

kukri scabbards are somtimes coated with various residues.

But perhaps bear meant bare? rather than coated?

I would like to see a kukri scabbard with brass stiching though! I havent yet seen one of those & i would like to.

Spiral

Emanuel · 5th January 2007, 02:17 PM

Hahaha

BARE it is, so sorry about that, don't know why I spelled it bear.

Hi Spiral, my comparison to khukri scabbards was only through the fact that there was stitching, no more. My other example of a khanjar does not show any kind of stitching, nor do the examples I've seen around the net, so I thought it strange.

Emanuel

spiral · 5th January 2007, 03:49 PM

OK Manolo thanks for the clarification!

My kurdish khanjar has stiching to rear of scabbard. I assumed they all had?

How are the others made?

Spiral

Emanuel · 5th January 2007, 03:57 PM

Well the one in the pictures with the beige/brown scabbard has very tight stitching, you don't see the stitches. On the black one they are blatantly exposed and very large. Does this occur on other types of scabbards? Again, my mention of khukri scabbards is due to them being the closest thing I can think of to compare with this black khanjar scabbard.

Emanuel

BBJW · 5th January 2007, 04:48 PM

I should have seen that "bear" was suposed to be "bare". It's hell getting old.

bj

Rick · 5th January 2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

Well the one in the pictures with the beige/brown scabbard has very tight stitching, you don't see the stitches. On the black one they are blatantly exposed and very large. Does this occur on other types of scabbards? Again, my mention of khukri scabbards is due to them being the closest thing I can think of to compare with this black khanjar scabbard.

Emanuel

Yes, the wire stitching is fairly common in older pieces; it is made quite wide in your example.

Yataghan scabbard.

Emanuel · 5th January 2007, 06:23 PM

Thanks Rick, that looks just like mine, the stitching looks almost like coils/springs. So we have a similar Ottoman example then...that could put my khanjar somewhere within Ottoman territory, so Balkans sounds plausible. The dagger could also be Turkish.

Emanuel

4th January 2007, 03:41 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Khanjar for comment I got this khanjar for Christmas...sort of It's 12.5" long in scabbard, with a blade measuring 7". It looks a lot like kurdish khanjars, but there are some differences in construction. For one thing, the tang is held by a but screw or bolt instead of the studs on the face of the handle. The scabbard is also very different from the nicely tooled kurdish ones. It is wooden, coverd in black leather. Oddly, it has a brass collar and brass stitching that make it look like a khukri scabbard. Hence I'm thinking it could be Indian/Nepali/Afghan work. Then again, such a simple scabbard could very well have been made by Kurds. The blade looks like it was extensively polished at some point. There are depressions on the surface of the blade - maybe due to power sanders used to remove pitting and rust. Any comment would be most welcome. Emanuel - To clarify, the black horn khanjar with the two studs is the Kurdish one Attached Images Last edited by Manolo; 4th January 2007 at 04:30 PM.

4th January 2007, 07:10 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	But ... Look at the radical curve the stitching takes at the tip. Isn't that a little too radical a curve for a shamshir blade to take ?

5th January 2007, 02:24 AM	#7
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Thanks for the pic! I can see the resemblance...but your scabbard has geometric motifs tooled into the leather and wood it seems, and the nib at the tip is much like my own kurdish khajar. Now that I look at this weird scabbard, it looks like it's coated in pitch or something to make it hard...it isn't bear leather like on my khukri scabbards. -some more comparative pics... Emanuel Attached Images

4th January 2007, 03:49 PM	#2
BBJW Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Idaho, USA Posts: 225	Except for the scabbard this looks much like a Balkan piece I have.

4th January 2007, 04:27 PM	#3
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Looking at it, I think the scabbard is a replacement. There is a repair or alteration at the tip, perhaps indicating that a larger scabbard was cut down to fit this small blade. Its weird curvature would support this I think. Could you post a pic of your balkan example? The ones on the Oriental-Arms website are more high-end it seems and most bear silver decorations.

4th January 2007, 06:09 PM	#4
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	that scabbord looks like it was originally for a sword shamshir tulwar etc and and just cut.

5th January 2007, 10:11 AM	#9
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Kukri scabbards were usualy buffalo or goat leather, but I have seen some leather I dont recognise as well, which probably includes yak,monkey, etc. kukri scabbards are somtimes coated with various residues. But perhaps bear meant bare? rather than coated? I would like to see a kukri scabbard with brass stiching though! I havent yet seen one of those & i would like to. Spiral

5th January 2007, 02:17 PM	#10
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hahaha BARE it is, so sorry about that, don't know why I spelled it bear. Hi Spiral, my comparison to khukri scabbards was only through the fact that there was stitching, no more. My other example of a khanjar does not show any kind of stitching, nor do the examples I've seen around the net, so I thought it strange. Emanuel

5th January 2007, 03:49 PM	#11
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	OK Manolo thanks for the clarification! My kurdish khanjar has stiching to rear of scabbard. I assumed they all had? How are the others made? Spiral

5th January 2007, 03:57 PM	#12
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Well the one in the pictures with the beige/brown scabbard has very tight stitching, you don't see the stitches. On the black one they are blatantly exposed and very large. Does this occur on other types of scabbards? Again, my mention of khukri scabbards is due to them being the closest thing I can think of to compare with this black khanjar scabbard. Emanuel

5th January 2007, 04:48 PM	#13
BBJW Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Idaho, USA Posts: 225	I should have seen that "bear" was suposed to be "bare". It's hell getting old. bj

5th January 2007, 06:23 PM	#15
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Thanks Rick, that looks just like mine, the stitching looks almost like coils/springs. So we have a similar Ottoman example then...that could put my khanjar somewhere within Ottoman territory, so Balkans sounds plausible. The dagger could also be Turkish. Emanuel