Cup hilt sword

AHorsa · 17th October 2022, 04:22 PM

Dear All,

I just acquired this sword, which hopefully will arrive next week. Can´t wait to hold it in my hands

Length is 100cm but the tip seems to be shortened.

I learned from Fernandos threads that this sort of cup hilted swords, where the parrier rod is welded to the cup, are mostly of portugese origin. While browsing this forum I found that thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20948

The two swords shwon there are dated to the 17th century and do have the same sort of pommel with the screwed guard and the decorations on the guard and quillions. Could this also be a 17th century sword? Does anyone see discrepancies on that piece (I will hand in better pictures next week).

Looking forward to your comments.

Kind regards
Andreas

fernando · 18th October 2022, 11:47 AM

Congratulations for your acquisition, Andreas. Yes, a good 'classic', with rompe puntas and all. Basically a military item, with the knuckle guard screwed to the pommel. You are right, the blade tip must have been shortened a few centimeters. Concerning age, this appears to be as (end) 17th. century as all others of this kind (mine included), meaning the usual age attribution may be a bit 'overestimated' by sellers, something that sounds good to buyers. So we may be skeptical and stretch the age to beg. 18th century, unless factual evidence shows otherwise.
But other members will have a better judgement.

AHorsa · 18th October 2022, 01:21 PM

Thank you so much for your reply, Fernando! I am happy that the piece seems to be alright.
Are there contemporary images of such swords?

Best regards
Andreas

fernando · 18th October 2022, 02:14 PM

The thread you linked in your first post shows a couple examples. I am sure you will find more of these swords and their discussions if you use again the SEARCH button. If i know what you mean by contemporary.

AHorsa · 18th October 2022, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

The thread you linked in your first post shows a couple examples. I am sure you will find more of these swords and their discussions if you use again the SEARCH button. If i know what you mean by contemporary.

Of course I already browsed the forum

I expressed myself misleadingly: I mean images from that time (17th/18th c) showing soldiers or so wearing such sword.

fernando · 18th October 2022, 03:56 PM

Scroll HERE .

AHorsa · 18th October 2022, 04:04 PM

You're a star! Thanks so much Fernando!

fernando · 18th October 2022, 06:38 PM

Only a planet ... no sparkle

.

ulfberth · 18th October 2022, 07:02 PM

Hi Andy and Fernando, I still feel these are among the underestimated items you can find on today's market, and few fakes so far because its not financialy rewarding. They are also a good learning base to start with and Fernando has some captivating varieties that you don't see often.
Bellow is a nice link with aditional information.
There is a nice book on these by Vicente Toledo Momparler.
kind regards
Ulfberth
https://vicentetoledo.es/es/espadas/espadas-hasta-1800

AHorsa · 19th October 2022, 06:34 AM

Hi Dirk,

thanks for the reply and the link!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulfberth

I still feel these are among the underestimated items you can find on today's market
https://vicentetoledo.es/es/espadas/espadas-hasta-1800

Yes, it seems so. I wonder how that comes, as (in my eyes) they are pretty pleasing shaped and the historical context is also interesting.

Kind regards
Andreas

17th October 2022, 04:22 PM	#1
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 354	Cup hilt sword Dear All, I just acquired this sword, which hopefully will arrive next week. Can´t wait to hold it in my hands Length is 100cm but the tip seems to be shortened. I learned from Fernandos threads that this sort of cup hilted swords, where the parrier rod is welded to the cup, are mostly of portugese origin. While browsing this forum I found that thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20948 The two swords shwon there are dated to the 17th century and do have the same sort of pommel with the screwed guard and the decorations on the guard and quillions. Could this also be a 17th century sword? Does anyone see discrepancies on that piece (I will hand in better pictures next week). Looking forward to your comments. Kind regards Andreas Attached Images

18th October 2022, 11:47 AM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Congratulations for your acquisition, Andreas. Yes, a good 'classic', with rompe puntas and all. Basically a military item, with the knuckle guard screwed to the pommel. You are right, the blade tip must have been shortened a few centimeters. Concerning age, this appears to be as (end) 17th. century as all others of this kind (mine included), meaning the usual age attribution may be a bit 'overestimated' by sellers, something that sounds good to buyers. So we may be skeptical and stretch the age to beg. 18th century, unless factual evidence shows otherwise. But other members will have a better judgement.

18th October 2022, 01:21 PM	#3
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 354	Thank you so much for your reply, Fernando! I am happy that the piece seems to be alright. Are there contemporary images of such swords? Best regards Andreas

18th October 2022, 02:14 PM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	The thread you linked in your first post shows a couple examples. I am sure you will find more of these swords and their discussions if you use again the SEARCH button. If i know what you mean by contemporary.

18th October 2022, 03:56 PM	#6
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Scroll HERE .

18th October 2022, 04:04 PM	#7
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 354	You're a star! Thanks so much Fernando!

18th October 2022, 06:38 PM	#8
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Only a planet ... no sparkle .

18th October 2022, 07:02 PM	#9
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 382	Hi Andy and Fernando, I still feel these are among the underestimated items you can find on today's market, and few fakes so far because its not financialy rewarding. They are also a good learning base to start with and Fernando has some captivating varieties that you don't see often. Bellow is a nice link with aditional information. There is a nice book on these by Vicente Toledo Momparler. kind regards Ulfberth https://vicentetoledo.es/es/espadas/espadas-hasta-1800