clunker saif?

BSMStar · 15th February 2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The name stamped in the blade attempts to say 'Genoa'...

Jim... You may want to consider "Seiol" (сеиол is Cyrillic isn't it).

It would seem they would have stamped "геноа" if they wanted Genoa. Just a gut feeling...

Jim McDougall · 16th February 2007, 02:35 AM

Thanks very much Ariel

! Much appreciated.

You are right Richard, this is not an Italian style hilt. It is a locally produced hilt with stylized influence believed to derive from early Italian hilts. As I had noted, the ring guards and developing complex quillon arrangements on many Italian hilts may be seen in rudimentary form in many of these sa'if hilts. The influence of these Italian hilts were diffused widely, typically via Venetian trade routes.

BSMStar,
I am not a linquist so I can only presume you are right that this word is not Cyrillic. However, in transcribing words or inscriptions on trade blades or native blades, spelling and letter form are typically anything but correct.
This can often be seen for example on even Solingen blades which sought to duplicate mottos or makers names from other countries. The spellings, letter forms etc. are often incorrect, and as native makers copied from the trade blades, the digression became even more acute.
My suggestion was that this interpretation on this blade simply attempted to mimic the 'Genoa' often seen on certain blades.

All best regards,
Jim

ariel · 16th February 2007, 02:52 AM

I fully agree. No Cyrillic here!!!
It is just a not very literate attempt to imitate foreign letters.
They also imitated Polish, German and Hungarian inscriptions with rather comic results, forged Solingen and Hungarian markings with very local flavor etc.
On the other hand, Europeans exported gazillions of sword blades inscribed "Fringia", a place that, to my knowledge, never existed ( correct me, please!). This was a corruption of Feringhi ( foreighner, European) just to convince the "locals" that they were buying a real import stuff! Come to think of it, not much difference between the two approaches

BSMStar · 16th February 2007, 12:59 PM

I am not trying to assert what is right or wrong… just a consideration (although, the letters are legitimate Cyrillic letters).

Do an internet search for Seiol… it is a real word and a name.

Best regards,

Wayne

16th February 2007, 02:35 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	Thanks very much Ariel ! Much appreciated. You are right Richard, this is not an Italian style hilt. It is a locally produced hilt with stylized influence believed to derive from early Italian hilts. As I had noted, the ring guards and developing complex quillon arrangements on many Italian hilts may be seen in rudimentary form in many of these sa'if hilts. The influence of these Italian hilts were diffused widely, typically via Venetian trade routes. BSMStar, I am not a linquist so I can only presume you are right that this word is not Cyrillic. However, in transcribing words or inscriptions on trade blades or native blades, spelling and letter form are typically anything but correct. This can often be seen for example on even Solingen blades which sought to duplicate mottos or makers names from other countries. The spellings, letter forms etc. are often incorrect, and as native makers copied from the trade blades, the digression became even more acute. My suggestion was that this interpretation on this blade simply attempted to mimic the 'Genoa' often seen on certain blades. All best regards, Jim

16th February 2007, 02:52 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I fully agree. No Cyrillic here!!! It is just a not very literate attempt to imitate foreign letters. They also imitated Polish, German and Hungarian inscriptions with rather comic results, forged Solingen and Hungarian markings with very local flavor etc. On the other hand, Europeans exported gazillions of sword blades inscribed "Fringia", a place that, to my knowledge, never existed ( correct me, please!). This was a corruption of Feringhi ( foreighner, European) just to convince the "locals" that they were buying a real import stuff! Come to think of it, not much difference between the two approaches

16th February 2007, 12:59 PM	#4
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	I am not trying to assert what is right or wrong… just a consideration (although, the letters are legitimate Cyrillic letters). Do an internet search for Seiol… it is a real word and a name. Best regards, Wayne