Caribbean Spanish colonial cuphilt rapier

M ELEY · 12th May 2013, 02:18 AM

Pics to follow soon!

I thought I would be 85 by the time I could afford one of these, but it came 40 years early (

). Finally got time to post a few pics of this not-too-often seen example of cuphilt.

Picked this one up for a song! It's a colonial piece, circa 1700, similar to its European cousin, but with characteristics that make its origin clear. Plain cup hilt exhibiting simple line work where the guardo pulvo (spelling?) would be. Solid horn grip hollowed out to allow the tang to pass through. The quillons are more decorative than most, possessing a rounded end with adjoining rings. I particularly like the branches coming off the knuckle bow to join the cup. The kicker is the mushroom-shaped pommel so defining of these Caribbean pieces. On top of pommel is an odd shaped design that resembles a pair of lips! Very odd and not a casting flaw as it is raised up. Long, straight plain rapier blade with single fuller, blade length is almost 38". It makes a welcome addition to my 'scurvy pirate' collection. Aarrrr!

For listed examples, see-

'Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America:1700-1821', by Brinckerhoff/Chamberlain- plates 125-126

'Arms and Armor in Colonial America', by Peterson- pg 74.

fernando · 13th May 2013, 12:30 PM

Oh man !
Now you can tell you are a real swords collector

.
But if ever you get bored of it, warn me when you toss it over (the ocean); i will make sure i will pick up before it hits the ground ... assuring no damage

.
Will you ever be able to take a clear picture of the bowl interior, where the guardapolvo sometimes stands ?

.

M ELEY · 13th May 2013, 06:13 PM

Hello Fernando. Good to hear from you! I thought this one might catch your attention. Forgive me, as I have used the wrong term in my description (

). I was referring to the absence of the overlap along the rim of the bowl , called ? rompas? Not the guardopovlo, of which mine has none. I was looking back over the fine specimens you have posted over the years, but could not find the term for the controversial rim to catch the opponent's blade (I believe the past consensus on this is that the rompas might deflect the point momentarily in battle at best).

Oh, BTW, now I am telling you I am "a real sword collector!"-

fernando · 13th May 2013, 07:27 PM

The term is rompe-puntas (in portuguese quebra pontas)... in other words point breaker.
I belong to the team skeptical about such feature purpose corresponding to what it is claimed for; even Zorro would sweat his mask to catch a blade point in that narrow groove

.
My wishing to see a picture of the bowl interior was to check whether there are some sword smiths mark in there.

M ELEY · 14th May 2013, 12:47 PM

No, unfortunately there are no markings or symbols in the bowl or on the tang. Not to get off the subject, but on my Spanish bilbo, there is a marking of an arrow, complete with feathers, pointing downwards. Would you happen to know that symbol, my friend? The blade is the typical six-sided affair with a rounded tip. Were the blades on bilbos and cuphilts ever made by the German sword smiths, like in England? I know that is an odd question, but it seems that many countries were importing from that region of the world back then-

fernando · 14th May 2013, 01:30 PM

I wouldn't know that mark, but i guess there was a rather active exchange between Toledo and Solingen blades back in that period ... and not only

12th May 2013, 02:18 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,070	Caribbean Spanish colonial cuphilt rapier Pics to follow soon! I thought I would be 85 by the time I could afford one of these, but it came 40 years early ( ). Finally got time to post a few pics of this not-too-often seen example of cuphilt. Picked this one up for a song! It's a colonial piece, circa 1700, similar to its European cousin, but with characteristics that make its origin clear. Plain cup hilt exhibiting simple line work where the guardo pulvo (spelling?) would be. Solid horn grip hollowed out to allow the tang to pass through. The quillons are more decorative than most, possessing a rounded end with adjoining rings. I particularly like the branches coming off the knuckle bow to join the cup. The kicker is the mushroom-shaped pommel so defining of these Caribbean pieces. On top of pommel is an odd shaped design that resembles a pair of lips! Very odd and not a casting flaw as it is raised up. Long, straight plain rapier blade with single fuller, blade length is almost 38". It makes a welcome addition to my 'scurvy pirate' collection. Aarrrr! For listed examples, see- 'Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America:1700-1821', by Brinckerhoff/Chamberlain- plates 125-126 'Arms and Armor in Colonial America', by Peterson- pg 74. Attached Images Last edited by M ELEY; 12th May 2013 at 06:01 AM.

13th May 2013, 12:30 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Oh man ! Now you can tell you are a real swords collector . But if ever you get bored of it, warn me when you toss it over (the ocean); i will make sure i will pick up before it hits the ground ... assuring no damage . Will you ever be able to take a clear picture of the bowl interior, where the guardapolvo sometimes stands ? .

13th May 2013, 06:13 PM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,070	Hello Fernando. Good to hear from you! I thought this one might catch your attention. Forgive me, as I have used the wrong term in my description ( ). I was referring to the absence of the overlap along the rim of the bowl , called ? rompas? Not the guardopovlo, of which mine has none. I was looking back over the fine specimens you have posted over the years, but could not find the term for the controversial rim to catch the opponent's blade (I believe the past consensus on this is that the rompas might deflect the point momentarily in battle at best). Oh, BTW, now I am telling you I am "a real sword collector!"-

13th May 2013, 07:27 PM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	The term is rompe-puntas (in portuguese quebra pontas)... in other words point breaker. I belong to the team skeptical about such feature purpose corresponding to what it is claimed for; even Zorro would sweat his mask to catch a blade point in that narrow groove . My wishing to see a picture of the bowl interior was to check whether there are some sword smiths mark in there.

14th May 2013, 12:47 PM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,070	No, unfortunately there are no markings or symbols in the bowl or on the tang. Not to get off the subject, but on my Spanish bilbo, there is a marking of an arrow, complete with feathers, pointing downwards. Would you happen to know that symbol, my friend? The blade is the typical six-sided affair with a rounded tip. Were the blades on bilbos and cuphilts ever made by the German sword smiths, like in England? I know that is an odd question, but it seems that many countries were importing from that region of the world back then-

14th May 2013, 01:30 PM	#6
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	I wouldn't know that mark, but i guess there was a rather active exchange between Toledo and Solingen blades back in that period ... and not only