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Old 2nd November 2023, 03:40 PM   #1
Paul de Souza
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Default Request for comments and insights on a Keris Madura

I just acquired this keris Madura kagok, I think that is what the wrangkra is called. I think the blade is kemardikan. I am intrigued by the pamor. Is this a "new" thing or a legitimate old pamor. Can't seem to find a picture of it. Would be grateful for comments on the keris; blade and dress.
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Old 2nd November 2023, 05:41 PM   #2
David
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Hi Paul. I have never seen this pamor before, but some variation of it may indeed be old and "legit". But yes, this does appear to me a current era keris. Kagok is a name that is applied to a certain form of Javanese ladrang (formal) wrongko. This is indeed a formal variety of Madurese wrongko, but i have not seen the name applied to Madurese wrongko yet. Though it is quite possibly correct. Interestingly the word seems to mean "clumsy" (Javanese) or "awkward" (Sundanese).
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Old 2nd November 2023, 07:47 PM   #3
A. G. Maisey
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I do not know the pamor, either in older blades or recent ones, it is interesting pattern welding.

"Kagok" is indeed a Javanese ladrang form, but it is also Madurese. The word can be ued in several ways, depending on context:- to feel awkward or disagreeable, or in speech style to be heavily accented or to be using a dialect, or for objects to be strange or extraordinary.

This is a particularly nice ladrangan wrongko, it is not a kagok wrongko style.

In this keris, only the wrongko has some age, all the other parts are current era, but all are of nice middle quality.
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Old 4th November 2023, 01:24 PM   #4
Paul de Souza
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Thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated. I always thought that a wrangkra of this form was kagok. What would a kagok look like? As for the fittings, there is a nice patina to them that gives some semblance of age. The pamor is intriguing even if it is not traditional. Wonder if we could ascribe a name to it - Pamor Bengkang Bengkok Baru? What amazes me is how they could fit the blade into the wrangkra so almost seamlessly. Thanks again.
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Old 5th November 2023, 08:44 AM   #5
Jean
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According to my source (M.M Hidayat), your warangka is in daunan (leaf) style from Madura.
According to Haryoguritno, kagok is a specific sub-type of warangka ladrang from Solo (kagok capu or kagok kacir) or of warangka gayaman from Solo (kagok gabel or kagok bancih).
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Old 5th November 2023, 08:55 AM   #6
A. G. Maisey
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These diagrams show what we would refer to as "kagok". The complete name of a kagok wrongko is kagok capu, "capu" is dialect --- not sure what dialect, maybe North Coast --- and it refers to a round head.The pic is from KJ --Haryoguritno.

These two wrongkos are termed "capu" in the diagrams, but I think most people in Central Jawa would most likely refer to both as "kagok". Maybe a real ahli keris would not, but dealers and people with no personality problems probably would.

Essentially a kagok, or kagok capu has that heaviness through the body & they look a bit shorter than other styles. We can have both ladrang & gayam kagok wrongkos, and both gayam & ladrang styles of wrongko have multiple sub-forms.

Its not all that hard to fit a blade to a wrongko provided the overall angles are right and the wrongko does not already have a big mouth. I can fit a blade to a suitable wrongko in 2 or 3 hours, its just patience and the right tools. An experienced tukang wrongko or m'ranggi can do it in a fraction of the time it takes me.
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Old 5th November 2023, 09:10 AM   #7
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Yes Jean, "daunan" is a commonly used name for the Madura ladrangan, but there are variations in Madurese ladrangans, just as there are variations in Solonese & Ngayoga ladrangans , as well as the other regional variations.

As you have said "daunan" indicates leaf, but this is generic, not specific. In a Jawa wrongko the wide leaf-like part of a ladrang wrongko is called the "ron", or "godhong", which again means "leaf".

All Jawa ladrangs have this "ron", all Madura ladrang style wrongkos also have the leaf-like part, & in Madura it is called "daun", so a Madura ladrang is "daunan", ie, a wrongko with a "leaf".

Its generic, just as "Ladrangan" is generic.

The Kagok style is found in all areas of Jawa & Madura that do not wish to follow the lead of Ngoyoga & Solo, kagok wrongkos are found in Madiun, Magelang, the North Pesisir, and it is found in Madura & other places. It is not a form that originated in Solo, so it is not a sub-type of the Solonese ladrangan, it is a sub-type of the Javanese ladrangan. Some people believe it originated on the North Coast.

We could most certainly call Paul's wrongko "daunan", & that would be the same as calling it "ladrangan", Kagok, Kagok Capu, & Capu are sub-varieties of the Ladrangan form if we use Javanese, & the Daunan form if we use Madurese.

EDIT

Something just occurred to me.

The word "daun" is a Malay word, it does not occur in Javanese, nor in Old Javanese, nor Balinese for that matter.

I am not literate in Madurese, & I've seen the word "daunan" used frequently to describe the Madura ladrang, but I now doubt that this is the correct word in the indigenous language of Madura to describe the Madura Ladrang, I think that "daunan" has perhaps been coined by people who predominantly use Bahasa Indonesia in public communication, so probably educated Indonesians living adjacent to Madura, or perhaps amongst Indonesian collectors, but not amongst the Madurese people living in rural areas or who are societal elites.

Maybe we still have a way to go before we really know the correct term to use when we refer to a Madurese ladrangan wrongko.

Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 5th November 2023 at 08:19 PM. Reason: Afterthought
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