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Old 23rd December 2012, 01:52 PM   #31
Sajen
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Just received the second mail:

Dear Detlef,
the form or the style also the size of the tiuk pengentas can be different but he purpose is the same, they can make more beautiful with ukiran or just a simple one, of course the rich people or king family will make it a nice one, but we cannot say that the good knife is for king family or high caste, everybody can have a good or a simple one as they like.
kindly regards,
Ketut Karang


So it's relatively simple why there are different styles found from the tiuk pengentas and no special reason why are found inlaid blades with which ornament or "monster head".

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 23rd December 2012, 07:09 PM   #32
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Great information and contacts, right from the horse's mouth so to speak.

Thank you.
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Old 24th December 2012, 09:10 AM   #33
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Detlef,

Are you sure that your Balinese friend responded to the same knife that was originally posted on this thread?
To me it seems like he describes the axe, not the knife?
Except my picture from the Klungkung Palace here is another reference

http://pande.balidenpasartrading.co...hp?ipn=21&top=9

And below from an earlier thread from the Denpasar museum.

I tried Leiden but unfortunately they don't have any domestic name on it.
Michael
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Last edited by VVV : 24th December 2012 at 09:22 AM. Reason: added Denpasar
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Old 24th December 2012, 10:17 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVV
Detlef,

Are you sure that your Balinese friend responded to the same knife that was originally posted on this thread?
To me it seems like he describes the axe, not the knife?
Except my picture from the Klungkung Palace here is another reference

http://pande.balidenpasartrading.co...hp?ipn=21&top=9

And below from an earlier thread from the Denpasar museum.

I tried Leiden but unfortunately they don't have any domestic name on it.
Michael


Hello Michael,

I have send him the link from this thread to read and asked him for opinion and received the first mail about the use. After this I asked him, if there are different meanings/uses by the shown knifes in this thread and received the second mail. He have a good knowledge about Bali keris and collect them and live very traditionally. I will ask him further questions about this point again.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 24th December 2012, 11:21 AM   #35
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Thanks Detlef,

I didn't doubt his cultural knowledge, only if he responded to the same pictures based on the museum information. Quit often curators are wrong about artifacts coming from the outside but usually they know about their own culture.

Michael
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Old 26th December 2012, 12:23 PM   #36
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Here a further answer I received. I asked him if there are different purpose for the knifes and axe similar ones and about the different names.

Tiuk pengentas has some different size, the smaller one normally we called "tiuk pengentas" the purpose is for light use, like cut the rope and similar, but we also has a bigger one we call it "blakas pengentas", this is for a strong use like cutting the bamboo or other hard thing on the ceremony, actually the purpose is the same only there are many knife craftman make their art design on this kind of knife, as you know that in Bali we make everything with "ukiran" and touch of art and always try to make as good as we can.
kindly regards,
Ketut Karang
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Old 26th December 2012, 08:44 PM   #37
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I have met Ketut Karang on several occasions, but he would not remember me.

Detlef's description of him is accurate,the information Ketut Karang has supplied is absolutely accurate and should be accepted without question.

"blakas" means "machete", or in Indonesian, "parang"

"tiuk" means "knife", or in Indonesian "pisau"
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Old 26th December 2012, 09:14 PM   #38
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Thanks Detlef and Alan,

What does pengentas mean?

Michael
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Old 26th December 2012, 09:22 PM   #39
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Detlef,

FANTASTIC work my friend!

Bravo!
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Old 26th December 2012, 10:14 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVV
Thanks Detlef and Alan,

What does pengentas mean?

Michael



Hello Michael,

I would have been able to translate "tiuk" but already happy that Alan was able to translate "blakas" since it makes all more clear.
But frankly I am not able to translate "pengentas". Maybe Alan can help.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 26th December 2012, 10:18 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantia
Detlef,

FANTASTIC work my friend!

Bravo!


Thank you buddy! Glad that I can help. Thank's to Ketut for his kind help.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 26th December 2012, 10:45 PM   #42
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Michael, I do not speak Balinese, I only know a few words, so I cannot give an accurate interpretation of "pengentas".

It would come from the root "entas" which I think has the sense of walking in Balinese, "mentas" means to walk. Logically, "pengentas" would signify a "doer" of the action.

There are some similarities between Balinese and Javanese and in Javanese "entas" can in some usages carry the sense of freeing or moving something or someone from one state to another, for instance "ngentas" is to take something out of something, like taking tempe out of cooking oil, or taking shoes out of the rain; "ngentasake" is to marry your daughter or son to somebody.

Possibly a blakas pengentas is a machete for clearing a way or for freeing something. Tiuk pengentas a knife for freeing something. These are guesses only, as I said, I do not speak Balinese.
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Old 26th December 2012, 11:21 PM   #43
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With the the explantion from Alan and the description Ketut Karang has given in post # 29 as follow: "...we use tiuk pengentas which symbolize to open another word for the soul,and hope that the soul will get a good way. after we bring the body to cemetery..." is maybe given a free translation.
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Old 27th December 2012, 07:44 AM   #44
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Alan and Detlef,

Thanks for the further explanations. So I assume that these blades are for freeing or clearing both physical as well as metaphysical objects.

Michael
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Old 9th August 2015, 09:12 PM   #45
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Good evening.

Found a picture of 4 examples from an auction at Christies 1997.
Maybe nice for reference / comparisson.

Best regards,
Willem
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Old 25th October 2015, 10:02 PM   #46
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Ps. here is my example.
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