Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 8th July 2018, 12:28 PM   #1
DaveF
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lancashire, England
Posts: 17
Default Help with I.D., please

My son's just messaged me with these pictures of a sword that he picked up for a song in a junk shop while holidaying in Cornwall, England. Apologies for the quality of the photos. My first thought was some sort of klewang but he says it's well balanced with the weight not towards the tip. Any advice would be gratefully received.
Attached Images
      
DaveF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th July 2018, 09:31 PM   #2
Amuk Murugul
Member
 
Amuk Murugul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rahiangtang Taroem: 'Sama Marantaw Badjaoe'
Posts: 353
Default

Hullo DaveF,

Karit Ilang from northern Kalamantan highlands.
Handle: toenan, gegkem belawan, oeloeh teloengan betjoek.

Best,
Amuk Murugul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th July 2018, 10:34 PM   #3
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 6,292
Default

Hello Dave,

I would call it a sangkit from the Murut people, Northern Borneo, see for example here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...highlight=murut & http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=sangkit
I think Amuk mean the same. Very good catch!

Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th July 2018, 11:15 PM   #4
DaveF
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lancashire, England
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul
Hullo DaveF,

Karit Ilang from northern Kalamantan highlands.
Handle: toenan, gegkem belawan, oeloeh teloengan betjoek.

Best,



Thanks for that, Amuk. I'm assuming "toenan" means "handle". Any chance you could clarify what "gegkem belawan, oeloeh teloengan betjoek" mean?

Thanks again for your help.

Best,

Dave
DaveF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th July 2018, 11:28 PM   #5
DaveF
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lancashire, England
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hello Dave,

I would call it a sangkit from the Murut people, Northern Borneo, see for example here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...highlight=murut & http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=sangkit
I think Amuk mean the same. Very good catch!

Regards,
Detlef



Thanks Detlef. The handles on the swords in the link really are a clincher!

Best,

Dave
DaveF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th July 2018, 02:52 AM   #6
Amuk Murugul
Member
 
Amuk Murugul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rahiangtang Taroem: 'Sama Marantaw Badjaoe'
Posts: 353
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Thanks for that, Amuk. I'm assuming "toenan" means "handle". Any chance you could clarify what "gegkem belawan, oeloeh teloengan betjoek" mean?

Thanks again for your help.

Best,

Dave

Hullo Dave,

Ref. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...1418#post231418

Best,
Amuk Murugul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th July 2018, 12:33 PM   #7
DaveF
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lancashire, England
Posts: 17
Default

Thanks again Amuk and Detlef for your help with identification. In trying to reconcile the two terms "Karit Ilang" and "Sangkit", would I be correct in assuming that the term Karit Ilang comes from the language of the Lun Bawang who, according to wikipedia, used to be wrongly called Murut by the Brits, whereas Murut is a general term for a broader ethnic group related to the Lun Bawang and the word Sangkit comes from a different Murut language? Would this specific form of pedang be exclusively from the Lun Bawang or from a number of different Murut/Lun Bawang ethnic groups? Maybe things were more fluid and I'm trying to draw lines where there aren't any?

Either way, when I get hold of the blade I'll post some better pictures up on the linked threads.
DaveF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2018, 07:30 PM   #8
DaveF
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lancashire, England
Posts: 17
Default

Hi Amuk,

Thanks for the link.

Best,

Dave
DaveF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2018, 11:33 PM   #9
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 6,292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
...Lun Bawang who, according to wikipedia, used to be wrongly called Murut by the Brits, whereas Murut is a general term for a broader ethnic group related to the Lun Bawang.


Hello Dave, can't answer your question, Dayak, Maurice and others are maybe able to answer your question but to my knowledge are the Murut and Lun Bawang are two different ethnic groups.

Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th July 2018, 01:33 PM   #10
DaveF
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lancashire, England
Posts: 17
Default

Thanks again for your help, Detlef. I guess for now I'll call it a sangkit/karit ilang.
DaveF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th July 2018, 10:03 PM   #11
Amuk Murugul
Member
 
Amuk Murugul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rahiangtang Taroem: 'Sama Marantaw Badjaoe'
Posts: 353
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Thanks again Amuk and Detlef for your help with identification. In trying to reconcile the two terms "Karit Ilang" and "Sangkit", would I be correct in assuming that the term Karit Ilang comes from the language of the Lun Bawang who, according to wikipedia, used to be wrongly called Murut by the Brits, whereas Murut is a general term for a broader ethnic group related to the Lun Bawang and the word Sangkit comes from a different Murut language? Would this specific form of pedang be exclusively from the Lun Bawang or from a number of different Murut/Lun Bawang ethnic groups? Maybe things were more fluid and I'm trying to draw lines where there aren't any?

Either way, when I get hold of the blade I'll post some better pictures up on the linked threads.


Hullo Dave,

'Karit Ilang' is a term familiar to the LoenBawang-Loendajeuh-Kelabit.
Also, I am reassured that to them, 'Moeroet' is an exonym.
The Loen Bawang, in particular, find the term offensive.

Best,
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Amuk Murugul : 11th July 2018 at 11:21 PM.
Amuk Murugul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2018, 12:13 PM   #12
DaveF
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lancashire, England
Posts: 17
Default

Hi Amuk,

Very interesting article on blogtau.com related to the picture you posted. Thanks for that.

Do you know what the carved handle represents?

Best,

Dave
DaveF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2018, 03:47 AM   #13
Amuk Murugul
Member
 
Amuk Murugul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rahiangtang Taroem: 'Sama Marantaw Badjaoe'
Posts: 353
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Hi Amuk,

Very interesting article on blogtau.com related to the picture you posted. Thanks for that.

Do you know what the carved handle represents?

Best,

Dave


Hullo again Dave,

..... mentioned in my ref., post re: Special Karit

Best,
Amuk Murugul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2018, 10:29 AM   #14
DaveF
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lancashire, England
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul
Hullo again Dave,

..... mentioned in my ref., post re: Special Karit

Best,


Ah, the pitcher plant! Thanks again Amuk.
DaveF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:05 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.