Another question about etching

ariel · 18th July 2010, 07:48 PM

I have been using a new bottle of the RadioShack etching fluid ( ferric chloride), diluted ~1:5. Took a soft cloth, soaked it, passed in a single movement over the blade (polished, washed, dried, alcohol defatted), and after ~10 seconds, washed it with copious amount of water , then sodiuim bicarbonate, then water again and dried it. From the beginning to the end it took no more than 1 min.
I got a wootz pattern ( pretty feeble), but the entire blade became grey.
What should I do to:
1. Enhance the pattern? More concentrated etcher? Longer exposure?
2. Eliminate the grey color? Rub it with rough felt?

kai · 18th July 2010, 11:52 PM

Hello Ariel,

Please post a pic or 2...

Is the blade expected to be wootz?

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 19th July 2010, 02:32 AM

Also what kind of water - distilled I hope? Did you also use baking soda afterward?

Ferguson · 19th July 2010, 10:33 AM

I've had wootz blades that didn't respond well to FeCl. They used nitric in the past I think. I've never used it. Very dangerous stuff.

Steve

ariel · 19th July 2010, 01:16 PM

Thanks to all!
Both blades are unquestionable wootz: very weak pattern seen.
Yes, distilled.
Yes, baking soda ( sodium bicarbonate)
What %% nitric acid? How long?

And, if the rest of the blade is still grey, any rubbing afterwards or some other method?

Gavin Nugent · 19th July 2010, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Thanks to all!
Both blades are unquestionable wootz: very weak pattern seen.
Yes, distilled.
Yes, baking soda ( sodium bicarbonate)
What %% nitric acid? How long?

And, if the rest of the blade is still grey, any rubbing afterwards or some other method?

Ariel,

You speak the lingo and will find this a help.

http://playground.sun.com/~vasya/Obach-01.html

It works for me and as noted, is very dangerous, I mean very, be careful.

Gav

ariel · 19th July 2010, 03:41 PM

Gav,
You are brilliant!!!!!!!
Many thanks.

Gavin Nugent · 19th July 2010, 04:23 PM

Happy to be of service, please send me the results and or post them here, I am interested to see how you got on with it...I am eager to know if it is the Kilij you were restoring some time back.

Gav

ALEX · 21st July 2010, 09:18 AM

Thanks for the link, Gav! You're brilliant indeed!

Ariel, I'd recommend in this case not to keep FeCl on the steel for long, and instead do many short sessions in this manner: clean and polish the blade, etch and as soon as you see the colour change to yellow - stop, clean the yellow residue with steel mesh (not sandpaper!!!) with a drop of dishwasher liquid, clean and repeat the cycle. could take as many as 10 cycles or more, but it will work. The yellow residue will prevent etchant from developing the pattern, so you must remove it before each etch. Repeat until you see the improvement, clean with water and apply oil to the blade.
The yellow residue is indicative of particular quality of wootz, not the etchant.

ariel · 22nd July 2010, 12:11 AM

By steel mesh you mean steel wool?
Also: how dilute should be FeCl?

Gavin Nugent · 22nd July 2010, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Thanks for the link, Gav! You're brilliant indeed!

Ariel, I'd recommend in this case not to keep FeCl on the steel for long, and instead do many short sessions in this manner: clean and polish the blade, etch and as soon as you see the colour change to yellow - stop, clean the yellow residue with steel mesh (not sandpaper!!!) with a drop of dishwasher liquid, clean and repeat the cycle. could take as many as 10 cycles or more, but it will work. The yellow residue will prevent etchant from developing the pattern, so you must remove it before each etch. Repeat until you see the improvement, clean with water and apply oil to the blade.
The yellow residue is indicative of particular quality of wootz, not the etchant.

Thanks Alex.

Ariel, Alex is indeed correct, this method works well too, though I fast tracked it a little...I'm not the most patient man. See the results of one Amanremu I have here from the Kelling Hall collection. This is a method I used to show the 'Wootz' or 'Wootz like' Inserted edge.
Fine 0000 grade steel wool is my choice.
Dilution, well, I ain't to scientific.

Gav

ALEX · 22nd July 2010, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

By steel mesh you mean steel wool?
Also: how dilute should be FeCl?

sorry, it is steel wool of course.
1:5 is ok, no need to dilute more.

18th July 2010, 07:48 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Another question about etching I have been using a new bottle of the RadioShack etching fluid ( ferric chloride), diluted ~1:5. Took a soft cloth, soaked it, passed in a single movement over the blade (polished, washed, dried, alcohol defatted), and after ~10 seconds, washed it with copious amount of water , then sodiuim bicarbonate, then water again and dried it. From the beginning to the end it took no more than 1 min. I got a wootz pattern ( pretty feeble), but the entire blade became grey. What should I do to: 1. Enhance the pattern? More concentrated etcher? Longer exposure? 2. Eliminate the grey color? Rub it with rough felt?

19th July 2010, 04:23 PM	#8
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Happy to help Happy to be of service, please send me the results and or post them here, I am interested to see how you got on with it...I am eager to know if it is the Kilij you were restoring some time back. Gav

18th July 2010, 11:52 PM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,218	Hello Ariel, Please post a pic or 2... Is the blade expected to be wootz? Regards, Kai

19th July 2010, 02:32 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Also what kind of water - distilled I hope? Did you also use baking soda afterward?

19th July 2010, 10:33 AM	#4
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	I've had wootz blades that didn't respond well to FeCl. They used nitric in the past I think. I've never used it. Very dangerous stuff. Steve

19th July 2010, 01:16 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks to all! Both blades are unquestionable wootz: very weak pattern seen. Yes, distilled. Yes, baking soda ( sodium bicarbonate) What %% nitric acid? How long? And, if the rest of the blade is still grey, any rubbing afterwards or some other method?

19th July 2010, 03:41 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Gav, You are brilliant!!!!!!! Many thanks.

21st July 2010, 09:18 AM	#9
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 935	Thanks for the link, Gav! You're brilliant indeed! Ariel, I'd recommend in this case not to keep FeCl on the steel for long, and instead do many short sessions in this manner: clean and polish the blade, etch and as soon as you see the colour change to yellow - stop, clean the yellow residue with steel mesh (not sandpaper!!!) with a drop of dishwasher liquid, clean and repeat the cycle. could take as many as 10 cycles or more, but it will work. The yellow residue will prevent etchant from developing the pattern, so you must remove it before each etch. Repeat until you see the improvement, clean with water and apply oil to the blade. The yellow residue is indicative of particular quality of wootz, not the etchant.

22nd July 2010, 12:11 AM	#10
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	By steel mesh you mean steel wool? Also: how dilute should be FeCl?