Question about preserving a keris

[Jussi M.]

classic display/store 1?

[shadejoy]

I would love to revive this thread with more relevant questions on how to best preserving Keris if you don't mind. If I may..

It's Balinese Keris.
I take on point of view where I see Keris as exceptional piece of art rich with philosophical and cultural values. I am not a spiritual person. Therefore I tend to take a more practical approach on Keris but still acknowledging its esoteric aspects where they fit.

Condition of the Keris: is in great shape with golden kinatah and ruby on the lion's mouth. No rust, with notable pamor shown on the wilah.
Condition of the Warangka: It is a contemporary warangka with intricate carvings. It's made from kayu arang and in good shape with a few mild 'woodish brown' spots which I'm totally unsure of if they're just dirt or scuffs or something else.
Condition of Selut: Silver selut, in great condition.
Condition of Hilt: It's also from kayu arang with gold and silver. The silver and gold have lost their luster and looking dull.

My questions are
For wilah: Is gun oil a good rust prevention for Keris; if it is, can I lather it on the kinatah as well?
Most if not all Keris owners in Indonesia use some type of floral oils. Is that the same as 100% pure essential oils? Some of the oils are reddish in color, so I wonder, is it not going to stain the wilah or its pamor?
There is also a suggestion to drench the wilah in WD40 prior to oiling, is that practice ok as well with keris with kinatah, and will it remove the warangan thus affecting the contrast of the pamor?

For warangka: What should I use to protect the kayu arang and preserve the carvings, any suggestions for its silver pendak as well?

For hilt: This piece is so detailed. How do I bring back the luster without compromising the kayu arang?

I appreciate your suggestions and the discussions!

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

I would love to revive this thread with more relevant questions on how to best preserving Keris if you don't mind. If I may..

It's Balinese Keris.
I take on point of view where I see Keris as exceptional piece of art rich with philosophical and cultural values. I am not a spiritual person. Therefore I tend to take a more practical approach on Keris but still acknowledging its esoteric aspects where they fit.

Condition of the Keris: is in great shape with golden kinatah and ruby on the lion's mouth. No rust, with notable pamor shown on the wilah.
Condition of the Warangka: It is a contemporary warangka with intricate carvings. It's made from kayu arang and in good shape with a few mild 'woodish brown' spots which I'm totally unsure of if they're just dirt or scuffs or something else.
Condition of Selut: Silver selut, in great condition.
Condition of Hilt: It's also from kayu arang with gold and silver. The silver and gold have lost their luster and looking dull.

My questions are
For wilah: Is gun oil a good rust prevention for Keris; if it is, can I lather it on the kinatah as well?
Most if not all Keris owners in Indonesia use some type of floral oils. Is that the same as 100% pure essential oils? Some of the oils are reddish in color, so I wonder, is it not going to stain the wilah or its pamor?
There is also a suggestion to drench the wilah in WD40 prior to oiling, is that practice ok as well with keris with kinatah, and will it remove the warangan thus affecting the contrast of the pamor?

For warangka: What should I use to protect the kayu arang and preserve the carvings, any suggestions for its silver pendak as well?

For hilt: This piece is so detailed. How do I bring back the luster without compromising the kayu arang?

I appreciate your suggestions and the discussions!

Should perhaps this post be moved to http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27622 ?

[David]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

Should perhaps this post be moved to http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27622 ?

That might be better. If we want to consolidate responses to your questions it isn't a good idea to revive every old post on the subject. We can place links to these old posts all under one heading in your new thread.

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by David

That might be better. If we want to consolidate responses to your questions it isn't a good idea to revive every old post on the subject. We can place links to these old posts all under one heading in your new thread.

I don't know how to move post(s) from one thread to the other, could you advise? I would like to move Allan's response above as well if possible.

[David]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

I don't know how to move post(s) from one thread to the other, could you advise? I would like to move Allan's response above as well if possible.

Only moderators can sort that out. But i will be honest with you. We are not going to keep moving single posts around. There is a post in the Stickies for this forum that lists "Classic" posts. Rick and i will try to find the best post(s) to include there on the subject of cleaning and preserving and place a link in the "Classics" entry.

[A. G. Maisey]

SJ, the plastic I use is purchased in 100 meter rolls, it is used in Indonesia by people who sell snack foods, they fold and seal one end over a candle, put the food inside, then seal the other end, it comes in various widths & various thicknesses.

When I have run out of it, I've used sandwich cling wrap. I only wrap the blade and I normally store that oiled and wrapped blade in the wrongko, usually with the top inch or so of the blade not in the wrongko. This is practical, and I have had some keris stored like this for more than 50 years with only an occasional re-oil. I live waterfront to a salt water lake. Those blades are as good now as they were when I first stored them.

But if you want the best way to do it --- short of modern museum conditions --- you should store each part separately.

Medicinal paraffin is mineral oil, so is Singer sewing machine oil.

There are better oils for protection than what I prefer, but gun oil has an ugly smell on keris, I use gun oil on my firearms, I use light mineral oil and aromatic oil on my keris.

If the applied gold is true kinatah it has been mechanically fixed, but a lot of current era "kinatah" is fixed with adhesive. If your keris has genuine, mechanically fixed kinatah, the oil will not harm it, if it has "kinatah" fixed with adhesive, it will loosen over time when oil is applied.

I have never observed any unwanted blade staining with any oil I have ever used.

The easiest way to keep silver looking good is to use a silver polishing cloth. I only ever use Goddards, which is made in England. I have tried other brands in the past and have found them unsatisfactory in one way or another.

The hilt will definitely require some patience & delicacy in maintenance, but that maintenance does not need to be often, I leave things go for years sometimes, I do not have the time, nor the inclination to fiddle around with literally hundreds of keris continually, and I do not have the money to pay somebody to do it for me. I do things very infrequently, but when I do work on my collection I do it properly and do it once.

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by David

Only moderators can sort that out. But i will be honest with you. We are not going to keep moving single posts around. There is a post in the Stickies for this forum that lists "Classic" posts. Rick and i will try to find the best post(s) to include there on the subject of cleaning and preserving and place a link in the "Classics" entry.

Duly noted, I will keep an eye out for the post. Thank you @David.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by David

Only moderators can sort that out. But i will be honest with you. We are not going to keep moving single posts around. There is a post in the Stickies for this forum that lists "Classic" posts. Rick and i will try to find the best post(s) to include there on the subject of cleaning and preserving and place a link in the "Classics" entry.

I believe that research in these forums can be much more fruitful if done on one's own rather than having it all collated for you by the forum staff and put in a sticky thread.
Life is busy enough for most of us.
Seek and ye shall find.
Think of all the other useful keris related knowledge that will fall your way during the research process.

[A. G. Maisey]

A keris of this type can be quite difficult to maintain.

The number one, essential to observe is that it should not be kept in an unprotected situation.

It must be protected as much as possible from dust, fly spots, temperature and humidity variation. In a normal home environment this can be pretty challenging.

Do not keep the keris in its scabbard.The blade should be lightly oiled and kept in a plastic sleeve. Gun oil is a very good protective agent, but depending on how that kinatah work was applied it could loosen it. My approach would be to use medicinal paraffin or Singer sewing machine oil lightly applied to the bare ferric material only, with an artist's paint brush, I like to add sandalwood oil to the oil. I would store the oiled and plastic sleeve protected blade in a horizontal position in a drawer or cupboard.


Kayu arang can be very subject to cracking unless treated with care. It must never be exposed to direct sunlight. I use a good quality furniture oil, worked into the wood with a toothbrush, only use a very small quantity of oil, the pendok might be held in place with adhesive, try not to let the oil penetrate behind the pendok if adhesive has been used. You don't need to use the oil very often, maybe once every 6 or 12 months, but you do need to keep the wrongko in a soft cloth cover, and stored without the blade in it, and in a protected situation, as with the blade.

This type of hilt uses adhesive to hold the metal enhancements in place. I would not use oil on this hilt, possibly a smear of good quality furniture wax applied with a finger tip or cotton bud to only the bare wood. Again, the hilt should be kept in a protected situation.

Most people want to have their keris out on display, so all the above advice is quite likely not to be followed. However, if it is followed your keris can be kept as it is now virtually forever.

In the past I have kept keris & other weapons on display, it was not kind to what I had out, and it was very time consuming to keep the keris & other things in good condition.

Protected environment is paramount:- blade out of scabbard, oiled + plastic sleeve, store flat; wrongko never sees the sun & is kept as protected as possible from dust, flies, heat & humidity variation; hilt is treated as with the wrongko.

Oil should be used sparingly.

[shadejoy]

Thank you very much @A. G. Maisey!

I have seen people enclosing the wilah in 'plastik mika'. I use plastic wrap instead, fully enshroud from pucuk to peksi. However, I wrap it in a way that the wilah is still able to be put in in the scabbard along with selut and hilt. My understanding at that time was to to have the Keris 'fully dressed' in the storage but with the wilah wrapped in plastic to avoid making contact with the wood. Granted, it's not fully in. I am going to follow your suggestion to leave it out of the scabbard and its hilt while fully covered. I store both of my Kerises laying horizontally in a Keris wooden box.

Another alternative I've seen people are using is mineral oil. Could we also use good quality (medical grade) mineral oil for Keris rust prevention; if so, do you think mineral oil is safer to kinatah compared to gun oil or should we also apply it to the bare iron only?

You mentioned sandalwood oil, are pure essential oils like sandalwood, rose, jasmine, etc going to stain the iron and/or the pamor overtime or that's not the case?

For warangka, I'll look for a good quality furniture oil from my local hardware store. Do you have suggestion on how to treat and care for the silver pendok?

For hilt, boy this is a tough one since the piece is so intricate. Both wood and metal carvings are so fine and I am usually not a patient one. Do you have suggestion on how to bring back the luster on the hilt's silver and gold?

Thanks again for your input, I appreciate it very much!

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

Thank you very much @A. G. Maisey!

I have seen people enclosing the wilah in 'plastik mika'. I use plastic wrap instead, fully enshroud from pucuk to peksi. However, I wrap it in a way that the wilah is still able to be put in in the scabbard along with selut and hilt. My understanding at that time was to to have the Keris 'fully dressed' in the storage but with the wilah wrapped in plastic to avoid making contact with the wood. Granted, it's not fully in. I am going to follow your suggestion to leave it out of the scabbard and its hilt while fully covered. I store both of my Kerises laying horizontally in a Keris wooden box.

Another alternative I've seen people are using is mineral oil. Could we also use good quality (medical grade) mineral oil for Keris rust prevention; if so, do you think mineral oil is safer to kinatah compared to gun oil or should we also apply it to the bare iron only?

You mentioned sandalwood oil, are pure essential oils like sandalwood, rose, jasmine, etc going to stain the iron and/or the pamor overtime or that's not the case?

For warangka, I'll look for a good quality furniture oil from my local hardware store. Do you have suggestion on how to treat and care for the silver pendok?

For hilt, boy this is a tough one since the piece is so intricate. Both wood and metal carvings are so fine and I am usually not a patient one. Do you have suggestion on how to bring back the luster on the hilt's silver and gold?

Thanks again for your input, I appreciate it very much!

Up ..looking for further advices, in case it's missed. I should also apologize in advance if my questions were rather rudimentary. I have close to zero knowledge of metal and woodwork treatments and preservation.

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

I would love to revive this thread with more relevant questions on how to best preserving Keris if you don't mind. If I may..

It's Balinese Keris.
I take on point of view where I see Keris as exceptional piece of art rich with philosophical and cultural values. I am not a spiritual person. Therefore I tend to take a more practical approach on Keris but still acknowledging its esoteric aspects where they fit.

Condition of the Keris: is in great shape with golden kinatah and ruby on the lion's mouth. No rust, with notable pamor shown on the wilah.
Condition of the Warangka: It is a contemporary warangka with intricate carvings. It's made from kayu arang and in good shape with a few mild 'woodish brown' spots which I'm totally unsure of if they're just dirt or scuffs or something else.
Condition of Selut: Silver selut, in great condition.
Condition of Hilt: It's also from kayu arang with gold and silver. The silver and gold have lost their luster and looking dull.

My questions are
For wilah: Is gun oil a good rust prevention for Keris; if it is, can I lather it on the kinatah as well?
Most if not all Keris owners in Indonesia use some type of floral oils. Is that the same as 100% pure essential oils? Some of the oils are reddish in color, so I wonder, is it not going to stain the wilah or its pamor?
There is also a suggestion to drench the wilah in WD40 prior to oiling, is that practice ok as well with keris with kinatah, and will it remove the warangan thus affecting the contrast of the pamor?

For warangka: What should I use to protect the kayu arang and preserve the carvings, any suggestions for its silver pendak as well?

For hilt: This piece is so detailed. How do I bring back the luster without compromising the kayu arang?

I appreciate your suggestions and the discussions!

Interesting pamor pattern. Balinese keris pamor seems not to have this type.

[A. G. Maisey]

I agree with you Anthony, but this is unashamedly a Keris Kamardikan, and when we get into this territory, anything goes.

In any case, it is a beautiful piece of work.

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by Anthony G.

Interesting pamor pattern. Balinese keris pamor seems not to have this type.

It is a Kamardikan Keris made in 2014, a bespoke piece. I commissioned a Pande in Bali and it took almost a year to finish. The pamor (Jarot Asem) was new to him, so I would agree with you @Anthony G. that this pamor is uncommon for Balinese Keris.

I plan on putting the wilah in an airtight vacuum-sealed plastic bag for preservation.

Thank you very much @Anthony G. & @A. G. Maisey for your appreciation.

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

It is a Kamardikan Keris made in 2014, a bespoke piece. I commissioned a Pande in Bali and it took almost a year to finish. The pamor (Jarot Asem) was new to him, so I would agree with you @Anthony G. that this pamor is uncommon for Balinese Keris.

I plan on putting the wilah in an airtight vacuum-sealed plastic bag for preservation.

Thank you very much @Anthony G. & @A. G. Maisey for your appreciation.

would you by chance knows or recall the Balinese panre name who made that difficult pamor pattern?

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by Anthony G.

would you by chance knows or recall the Balinese panre name who made that difficult pamor pattern?

He's Bli Pande Made Gede Suardika. I was very grateful that he was willing to take up on my request.
I believe his smithy is called Prapen Wesi Aji.

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

He's Bli Pande Made Gede Suardika. I was very grateful that he was willing to take up on my request.
I believe his smithy is called Prapen Wesi Aji.

thanks for info