Old Kaskara

ariel · 28th June 2019, 09:41 PM

For a long time I wanted to have an old Sudanese kaskara.. Finally, I got one.
Thanks to Edster's outstanding work ( See Classics) I can imagine some names and dates describing it, but I still have questions.
I copied some pics provided by the seller, because I cannot do a better job.
Here they are.

ariel · 28th June 2019, 09:55 PM

Now to the questions.
To me this seems to be a Dukkeri abu Dubban blade with all 3 marks: standing cat, fly and orb and cross.

Question #1: are we talking here about genuine blade of Peter or Samuel Kull from Solingen (1830-1870) or is it a locally made blade with " imitation" marks?

Question #2: The crossguard is Sammaniya with (?) smaller flare. Does it in conjunction with Q#1 suggest earlier origin?

Question #3: As a rule, kaskara handles had a pommel looking like a flattened cylinder. Here, however, the top of the hilt is already covered with leather. To me it may suggest that this particular handle had no pommel. Am I correct?

Question #4: The hilt is wrapped in leather and over-wrapped with some kind of pitch-impregnated twine. If I want to restore the binding using authentic materials, does anybody here know of a source where I can get it?

I have contacted Ed through PM and asked him to express his opinions. Please pitch in even if his responses are delayed.
Also, if at the judgement of the Moderators my posts might be adding something to the overall knowledge about Kaskaras, please feel free to add them to the general discussion in the classics section and remove my superfluous posts.

David R · 28th June 2019, 10:57 PM

In my experience, on some of these the leather pommel is like a ring doughnut around the end of the grip, so not contraindicated by the leather remaining on the end.

Edster · 29th June 2019, 12:42 AM

Ariel,

At first blush I'd say authentic Kull, but. While the marks look factory struck, other knowledgeable members may know if Kull put copper/gold inlays ion their marked trade blades. The inlays could have been added beyond Solingen. The cross & orb looks upside down. I'm not aware of the short fat fullers on Kassala blades. They were common on European blades for hundreds of years. But the blade has a relatively sharp point which I'm beginning to think is a more local attribute than Solingen. But the blade could have been sharpened later. If I had to say yea or nay, I'd go with Kull at this point.

The cross guard looks fine and not one of the one-piece, post-1940-something. You might check for an incomplete forge weld on the bottom just to be sure. It's hard to date crossguards due to the various skill of their makers, but is likely at least early 20th C., perhaps older.

I agree with DavidR on the leather covered pommel disk. Very common to have such when a new sword leaves the souk. I think the string cover is a later addition, but often seen. I would think you can get goat skin twine from an on-line leather supply. The finish is likely lanolin, dirt and hand sweat.

Best regards,
Ed

ariel · 29th June 2019, 01:22 PM

Thanks to all.
Imitation of European markings on “Oriental” blades is a bane of sword collectors. Some of them are indistinguishable from the originals and some were used so widely that the very attribution of a blade becomes problematic. For now, and as per Ed’s reluctant opinion I will assume that it is a genuine trade Solingen blade of mid-19 century. If unequivocal proof to the contrary becomes available, I shall be content with the designation of it as a local copy. I did find Kull’s blades with markings inlayed with some copper alloy, so it is good. Tentatively, this kaskara might have been created before “Mahdi rebellion”, might have even taken part in it and might have even beheaded Charlton Heston:-)

The idea of a “ doughnut” pommel may well be applicable to my example.

I looked long and hard for “goat skin twine”, found a source for hemp twine. The recent legalization of recreational marijuana in Michigan takes enormous weight off my shoulders: I am unlikely to be arrested for ordering controlled substance on the Internet:-) I shall contribute lanolin from the drug store and add dirt and sweat as per doctors orders.

Again, thanks to David and Ed!

Iain · 29th June 2019, 02:23 PM

Yes, its a genuine Kull, the copper fills I think were done locally as I've seen the same blade in takouba mounts without the fills but usually kaskara have them.

28th June 2019, 09:41 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Old Kaskara For a long time I wanted to have an old Sudanese kaskara.. Finally, I got one. Thanks to Edster's outstanding work ( See Classics) I can imagine some names and dates describing it, but I still have questions. I copied some pics provided by the seller, because I cannot do a better job. Here they are. Attached Images

28th June 2019, 09:55 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Now to the questions. To me this seems to be a Dukkeri abu Dubban blade with all 3 marks: standing cat, fly and orb and cross. Question #1: are we talking here about genuine blade of Peter or Samuel Kull from Solingen (1830-1870) or is it a locally made blade with " imitation" marks? Question #2: The crossguard is Sammaniya with (?) smaller flare. Does it in conjunction with Q#1 suggest earlier origin? Question #3: As a rule, kaskara handles had a pommel looking like a flattened cylinder. Here, however, the top of the hilt is already covered with leather. To me it may suggest that this particular handle had no pommel. Am I correct? Question #4: The hilt is wrapped in leather and over-wrapped with some kind of pitch-impregnated twine. If I want to restore the binding using authentic materials, does anybody here know of a source where I can get it? I have contacted Ed through PM and asked him to express his opinions. Please pitch in even if his responses are delayed. Also, if at the judgement of the Moderators my posts might be adding something to the overall knowledge about Kaskaras, please feel free to add them to the general discussion in the classics section and remove my superfluous posts. Last edited by ariel; 28th June 2019 at 10:14 PM.

28th June 2019, 10:57 PM	#3
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,052	In my experience, on some of these the leather pommel is like a ring doughnut around the end of the grip, so not contraindicated by the leather remaining on the end.

29th June 2019, 12:42 AM	#4
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 390	Ariel, At first blush I'd say authentic Kull, but. While the marks look factory struck, other knowledgeable members may know if Kull put copper/gold inlays ion their marked trade blades. The inlays could have been added beyond Solingen. The cross & orb looks upside down. I'm not aware of the short fat fullers on Kassala blades. They were common on European blades for hundreds of years. But the blade has a relatively sharp point which I'm beginning to think is a more local attribute than Solingen. But the blade could have been sharpened later. If I had to say yea or nay, I'd go with Kull at this point. The cross guard looks fine and not one of the one-piece, post-1940-something. You might check for an incomplete forge weld on the bottom just to be sure. It's hard to date crossguards due to the various skill of their makers, but is likely at least early 20th C., perhaps older. I agree with DavidR on the leather covered pommel disk. Very common to have such when a new sword leaves the souk. I think the string cover is a later addition, but often seen. I would think you can get goat skin twine from an on-line leather supply. The finish is likely lanolin, dirt and hand sweat. Best regards, Ed

29th June 2019, 01:22 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks to all. Imitation of European markings on “Oriental” blades is a bane of sword collectors. Some of them are indistinguishable from the originals and some were used so widely that the very attribution of a blade becomes problematic. For now, and as per Ed’s reluctant opinion I will assume that it is a genuine trade Solingen blade of mid-19 century. If unequivocal proof to the contrary becomes available, I shall be content with the designation of it as a local copy. I did find Kull’s blades with markings inlayed with some copper alloy, so it is good. Tentatively, this kaskara might have been created before “Mahdi rebellion”, might have even taken part in it and might have even beheaded Charlton Heston:-) The idea of a “ doughnut” pommel may well be applicable to my example. I looked long and hard for “goat skin twine”, found a source for hemp twine. The recent legalization of recreational marijuana in Michigan takes enormous weight off my shoulders: I am unlikely to be arrested for ordering controlled substance on the Internet:-) I shall contribute lanolin from the drug store and add dirt and sweat as per doctors orders. Again, thanks to David and Ed!

29th June 2019, 02:23 PM	#6
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,680	Yes, its a genuine Kull, the copper fills I think were done locally as I've seen the same blade in takouba mounts without the fills but usually kaskara have them.