New keris

Rick · 26th July 2005, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy

You are right, keris collecting, and in fact all collecting, is very subjective. I can appreciate the workmanship in a new keris. Sometimes I wonder how it's possible to 'create' the intricate pamor motifs.

But still, with an old keris I feel that there's a story behind the piece. That would be the so-called 'X' factor, no ? Unfortunately, the story is mostly lost as the keris goes from hand to hand before it comes in our possession. And this is especially true for old kerises in Western collections.

Freddy, I think you have expressed exactly why I tend to collect new pieces .

nechesh · 26th July 2005, 09:52 PM

Interesting discussion. Forgive me for stating the obvious, but it needn't be an either/or decision in terms of old vs. new keris. I must admit a strong tendency towards older keris, keris that have truly seen use as ethnographic objects. My interest in keris is not necessarily a technical one, but one of sociologic and anthropologic study. I am drawn towards the keris for it's magickal/mystical qualities. While i can certainly appreciate the technical aspect i will probably never be able to give anyone more than a cursory explanation on the metalurgy of keris. At the same time i also recognize Freddy's lament, the story is lost and so much more. Still, that "X" factor allure remains, though i do not fool myself into thinking that merely acquiring an old keris automatical opens oneself up to the (possibly) generations of magickal/mystical intention and charge that accumulate in a true ethnographic keris. I am afraid i am of the belief that pusaka ceases to be pusaka once it is "collected" and the generational chain is broken. This isn't to say that energy work can no longer be done with such a keris, but it is surely not the same as when the great-great grandson of the original owner works with the keris. You do not acquire magick merely by acquiring a magickal object. There is a lot more work involved than that.

On the other hand there is the "B" factor (Beauty), which i have certainly fallen prey to. I own a beautiful Madurese keris that was probably made in the 1980s for the collectors market (not the same as the "tourist" market). The style and execution of this piece i could probably never afford in an old keris. It caught my eye and called to me and so i bought it. It probably won't be the last time i buy a new keris. It's also important to understand that, like it or not, these newly made high level "art" keris are the evolution of the keris form. For the most part the keris as a spiritual/mystical/magickal ethnographic object is past in the Indonesian society. Yes, there are a VERY FEW empus who still know all the old tricks, or at least claim they do, but the call for their work is not increasing as time passes. These high level "art" keris are the future of the keris form. I suppose that if all collectors were to shun them that the art form itself would die out all together and that would be a real shame.

26th July 2005, 09:52 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Interesting discussion. Forgive me for stating the obvious, but it needn't be an either/or decision in terms of old vs. new keris. I must admit a strong tendency towards older keris, keris that have truly seen use as ethnographic objects. My interest in keris is not necessarily a technical one, but one of sociologic and anthropologic study. I am drawn towards the keris for it's magickal/mystical qualities. While i can certainly appreciate the technical aspect i will probably never be able to give anyone more than a cursory explanation on the metalurgy of keris. At the same time i also recognize Freddy's lament, the story is lost and so much more. Still, that "X" factor allure remains, though i do not fool myself into thinking that merely acquiring an old keris automatical opens oneself up to the (possibly) generations of magickal/mystical intention and charge that accumulate in a true ethnographic keris. I am afraid i am of the belief that pusaka ceases to be pusaka once it is "collected" and the generational chain is broken. This isn't to say that energy work can no longer be done with such a keris, but it is surely not the same as when the great-great grandson of the original owner works with the keris. You do not acquire magick merely by acquiring a magickal object. There is a lot more work involved than that. On the other hand there is the "B" factor (Beauty), which i have certainly fallen prey to. I own a beautiful Madurese keris that was probably made in the 1980s for the collectors market (not the same as the "tourist" market). The style and execution of this piece i could probably never afford in an old keris. It caught my eye and called to me and so i bought it. It probably won't be the last time i buy a new keris. It's also important to understand that, like it or not, these newly made high level "art" keris are the evolution of the keris form. For the most part the keris as a spiritual/mystical/magickal ethnographic object is past in the Indonesian society. Yes, there are a VERY FEW empus who still know all the old tricks, or at least claim they do, but the call for their work is not increasing as time passes. These high level "art" keris are the future of the keris form. I suppose that if all collectors were to shun them that the art form itself would die out all together and that would be a real shame.