A lantaka for your kind comments

fernando · 3rd March 2013, 01:34 PM

For some time now i managed to dispatch my Ethno stuff and turned into European; options, you know ...
But one or another Ethno weapons never left my wish list.
Such is the case of the lantaka, of which i have just acquired this example in London last week.
Actually there were three of them in the shop but, for budget reasons, i bought the smaller one. It measures 70 cms., weighs some 7,5 Kilos and has a 23 m/m bore.
I don't have the faintest idea of its age, provenance and authenticity.
Could you guys post your opinions on this piece? If this is a knockoff, i beg you not to hit me hard, but still tell me the truth

... and don't pay attention to those whiskers, in front of the cannon muzzle. This one didn't come from London; it is my one eyed Sofia, that someone decided to knock at my door with such gift.

.

napoleon · 3rd March 2013, 05:17 PM

looking for comments mine would be NEAT!!! THANKS FOR SHARING

Battara · 3rd March 2013, 08:14 PM

An Indonesian lantaka, perhaps Borneo?

Sajen · 3rd March 2013, 10:22 PM

Agree with Jose. And look authentic. BTW, a lantaka is on my wish list as well!

fernando · 4th March 2013, 01:12 PM

Thank you José and Detlef.
Merci Napoleon.
Any idea of the age ... 19th century ?

laEspadaAncha · 4th March 2013, 05:37 PM

Your lantaka looks good from the photos, Nando... the trunnions are below the centerline as one would expect on an authentic example. Can you take and post a close-up photo of the touch hole?

Also, I got a kick out of the cat. Our own likes to be around anything that is sharp and pointy or goes bang - especially if there's a camera invovled...

M ELEY · 4th March 2013, 06:18 PM

Awesome lantaka, Fernando!! I have also always wanted one of these and hope to acquire one someday. Yours looks absolutely authentic. It shows honest aging with some wear to the decorations. Note that yours isn't as 'decorative' as other models, something that I like because it points to its use as a weapon versus as simple window dressing (poorer quality 19th c. pieces were used as currency, as wedding dowry, etc). Judging from the length (27") and size bore (just under 1"), this could have been either a signal gun or as a defensive weapon (or both!). The real small ones are less than a foot (party-poppers!), while the largest are truly huge cannons vs rail guns. They would have fired either a large shot (1/2" ball) or the equivalent of partridge shot. Based on the fact that the trunions are 'closed', yours is post-1750/1800. If the ends of the swivel were open, they would pre-date 1750 (I had to go over some old notes to find that fact!). As far as where it is made, I'll have to look over my notes on these. I seem to remember that the ones with alligator decorations, seahorse designs were Malay? The plainer ones were Borneo? Can't remember...

Good find, my friend!!
Mark

P.S. For those interested in the history/making of these cannons, google 'Cannons of the Malay Archipelago' by Don Davie. I've had this printed article for awhile and tried to attach the link, but it's being difficult!

M ELEY · 4th March 2013, 06:25 PM

Trying again!

http://www.acant.org.au/Articles/MalayCannons.html

kahnjar1 · 4th March 2013, 07:22 PM

For interest, here are some on display at Fort Siloso in Singapore.
Stu

asomotif · 4th March 2013, 10:35 PM

I saw a similar example for sale at Michael Backman of London.

I guess that is a good thing

Battara · 4th March 2013, 11:20 PM

I'm thinking that this is the same one that was on Michael's site.

asomotif · 4th March 2013, 11:35 PM

No, it is not the same one.

the bamboo shoot motifs on Fernando's example are longer for starters.

fernando · 5th March 2013, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

... Can you take and post a close-up photo of the touch hole? ---

Sure thing Chris ... and also a close up of the tail interior. I think i will mount a 20 cms. bamboo cane tiller in it ; what do you think ... silly idea?

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

... Also, I got a kick out of the cat. Our own likes to be around anything that is sharp and pointy or goes bang - especially if there's a camera involved...

You can't imagine my struggle trying to take pictures of collection items with them five around.
That's why i usually wait for their "siesta" time to perform my photographic sessions

-

fernando · 5th March 2013, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I'm thinking that this is the same one that was on Michael's site.

Surely not, as pointed out by Willem. Mine was bought in Mayfair; will PM details, if wished.

fernando · 5th March 2013, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Awesome lantaka, Fernando!! I have also always wanted one of these and hope to acquire one someday.

Thanks a million for your kind notes my (pirate

) friend. There were two more left in the shop; if you wish, i can show you the place

-
...An thanks for the link to the article; great stuff, which i will save in my 'favorites'.

fernando · 5th March 2013, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

... the bamboo shoot motifs on Fernando's example are longer for starters.

Thanks Willem; didn't know those were called bamboo shoots; any chance you tell me the name of the decoration on the breech, it if has a specific one?

fernando · 8th March 2013, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

For interest, here are some on display at Fort Siloso in Singapore.
Stu

I never thanked you for those pictures, Stu

.
How do you get them ? I browse Fort Siloso and the lantakas i spot there are not the same and are more distant than the ones you posted

?

kahnjar1 · 8th March 2013, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

I never thanked you for those pictures, Stu

.
How do you get them ? I browse Fort Siloso and the lantakas i spot there are not the same and are more distant than the ones you posted

?

My pleasure to show. These pics were taken during a visit in 2007. I also have pics of other big guns, both old and WW2 vintage which are on display there.
Though perhaps not "ethnographic" I will open a thread and post the pics.
Regards Stu

fernando · 8th March 2013, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

An Indonesian lantaka, perhaps Borneo?

Indonesia is one thing, Borneo is another, no

?
But now i found an example with origin apparently attributed by a reliable source, said to be Moro from the Sulu Archipelago: HERE
I know nothing of these things, but the bamboo shoots (as per Willem) or fire tongues (as per local source) loock rather similar. Also the shaping of the barrel mouth and breech ring look familiar.
Does this make any sense ?

,

fernando · 17th March 2013, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

I saw a similar example for sale at Michael Backman of London.

I guess that is a good thing

I have just checked that one. It is obviously not the same, but the similarities are outstanding; most probably from the same foundry area, where the same patterns are used.

fernando · 17th March 2013, 03:43 PM

I thought i would make a different stand ... with the help of a local carpenter

.
The one that came from the seller didn't look right to me; not even fitting well.
I have to get some paint to darken the nail heads.

.

Sajen · 17th March 2013, 06:58 PM

Good choice!

fernando · 17th March 2013, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Good choice!

BANDOOK · 17th June 2015, 11:30 AM

THANKS TO THIS THREAD,SO I NOW KNOW MY LANTAKA IS FROM THE MORO PEOPLE OF THE SULU ARCHIPELAGO,CHEERS RAJESH
SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THE MOROS
The Moro pirates, also known as the Sulu pirates, were Muslim outlaws of the southern Philippines who engaged in frequent acts of piracy, primarily against the Spanish, beginning in the late 16th century. Because of the continual wars between Spain and the Moro people, the areas in and around the Sulu Sea became a haven for piracy which was not suppressed until the beginning of the 20th century. The pirates should not be confused with the naval forces or privateers of the various Moro tribes. However, many of the pirates operated under government sanction during time of war
The pirate ships used by the Moros were known as proa, or garays, and they varied in design. The majority were wooden sailing galleys about ninety feet long with a beam of ten feet. They carried around fifty to 100 crewmen. Moros usually armed their vessels with three swivel guns, called lelahs or lantakas, and occasionally a heavy cannon, proas were very fast and the pirates would prey on merchant ships becalmed in shallow water as they passed through the Sulu Sea. Slave trading and raiding was also very common, the pirates would assemble large fleets of proas and attack coastal towns. Hundreds of Christians were captured and imprisoned over the centuries, many were used as galley slaves aboard the pirate ships.

Battara · 18th June 2015, 01:11 AM

Here is the difficulty with some of this: there was lots of trade between different parts of Indonesia (Borneo being part of that) and the Moros in the Philippines. You will therefore find Indonesian lantakas in the Philippines (i.e. the attribution in the Hawaii museum) as well as Indonesian keris, etc.

When I say "Moro lantana" I mean Moro Philippine made lantaka. Examples can be found here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=moro+lantaka

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001495.html

3rd March 2013, 01:34 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	A lantaka for your kind comments For some time now i managed to dispatch my Ethno stuff and turned into European; options, you know ... But one or another Ethno weapons never left my wish list. Such is the case of the lantaka, of which i have just acquired this example in London last week. Actually there were three of them in the shop but, for budget reasons, i bought the smaller one. It measures 70 cms., weighs some 7,5 Kilos and has a 23 m/m bore. I don't have the faintest idea of its age, provenance and authenticity. Could you guys post your opinions on this piece? If this is a knockoff, i beg you not to hit me hard, but still tell me the truth ... and don't pay attention to those whiskers, in front of the cannon muzzle. This one didn't come from London; it is my one eyed Sofia, that someone decided to knock at my door with such gift. . Attached Images

3rd March 2013, 05:17 PM	#2
napoleon Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 88	lantaka looking for comments mine would be NEAT!!! THANKS FOR SHARING

4th March 2013, 06:18 PM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Awesome lantaka, Fernando!! I have also always wanted one of these and hope to acquire one someday. Yours looks absolutely authentic. It shows honest aging with some wear to the decorations. Note that yours isn't as 'decorative' as other models, something that I like because it points to its use as a weapon versus as simple window dressing (poorer quality 19th c. pieces were used as currency, as wedding dowry, etc). Judging from the length (27") and size bore (just under 1"), this could have been either a signal gun or as a defensive weapon (or both!). The real small ones are less than a foot (party-poppers!), while the largest are truly huge cannons vs rail guns. They would have fired either a large shot (1/2" ball) or the equivalent of partridge shot. Based on the fact that the trunions are 'closed', yours is post-1750/1800. If the ends of the swivel were open, they would pre-date 1750 (I had to go over some old notes to find that fact!). As far as where it is made, I'll have to look over my notes on these. I seem to remember that the ones with alligator decorations, seahorse designs were Malay? The plainer ones were Borneo? Can't remember... Good find, my friend!! Mark P.S. For those interested in the history/making of these cannons, google 'Cannons of the Malay Archipelago' by Don Davie. I've had this printed article for awhile and tried to attach the link, but it's being difficult! Last edited by M ELEY; 4th March 2013 at 10:59 PM.

4th March 2013, 07:22 PM	#9
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,728	For interest, here are some on display at Fort Siloso in Singapore. Stu Attached Images

4th March 2013, 11:35 PM	#12
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	No, it is not the same one. the bamboo shoot motifs on Fernando's example are longer for starters. Attached Images

3rd March 2013, 08:14 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	An Indonesian lantaka, perhaps Borneo?

3rd March 2013, 10:22 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,469	Agree with Jose. And look authentic. BTW, a lantaka is on my wish list as well!

4th March 2013, 01:12 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Thank you José and Detlef. Merci Napoleon. Any idea of the age ... 19th century ?

4th March 2013, 05:37 PM	#6
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Your lantaka looks good from the photos, Nando... the trunnions are below the centerline as one would expect on an authentic example. Can you take and post a close-up photo of the touch hole? Also, I got a kick out of the cat. Our own likes to be around anything that is sharp and pointy or goes bang - especially if there's a camera invovled...

4th March 2013, 06:25 PM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Trying again! http://www.acant.org.au/Articles/MalayCannons.html

4th March 2013, 10:35 PM	#10
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	I saw a similar example for sale at Michael Backman of London. I guess that is a good thing

4th March 2013, 11:20 PM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	I'm thinking that this is the same one that was on Michael's site.

17th March 2013, 03:43 PM	#21
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	I thought i would make a different stand ... with the help of a local carpenter . The one that came from the seller didn't look right to me; not even fitting well. I have to get some paint to darken the nail heads. . Attached Images

17th March 2013, 06:58 PM	#22
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,469	Good choice!

17th June 2015, 11:30 AM	#24
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	Moro from the Sulu Archipelago THANKS TO THIS THREAD,SO I NOW KNOW MY LANTAKA IS FROM THE MORO PEOPLE OF THE SULU ARCHIPELAGO,CHEERS RAJESH SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THE MOROS The Moro pirates, also known as the Sulu pirates, were Muslim outlaws of the southern Philippines who engaged in frequent acts of piracy, primarily against the Spanish, beginning in the late 16th century. Because of the continual wars between Spain and the Moro people, the areas in and around the Sulu Sea became a haven for piracy which was not suppressed until the beginning of the 20th century. The pirates should not be confused with the naval forces or privateers of the various Moro tribes. However, many of the pirates operated under government sanction during time of war The pirate ships used by the Moros were known as proa, or garays, and they varied in design. The majority were wooden sailing galleys about ninety feet long with a beam of ten feet. They carried around fifty to 100 crewmen. Moros usually armed their vessels with three swivel guns, called lelahs or lantakas, and occasionally a heavy cannon, proas were very fast and the pirates would prey on merchant ships becalmed in shallow water as they passed through the Sulu Sea. Slave trading and raiding was also very common, the pirates would assemble large fleets of proas and attack coastal towns. Hundreds of Christians were captured and imprisoned over the centuries, many were used as galley slaves aboard the pirate ships. Attached Images

18th June 2015, 01:11 AM	#25
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Here is the difficulty with some of this: there was lots of trade between different parts of Indonesia (Borneo being part of that) and the Moros in the Philippines. You will therefore find Indonesian lantakas in the Philippines (i.e. the attribution in the Hawaii museum) as well as Indonesian keris, etc. When I say "Moro lantana" I mean Moro Philippine made lantaka. Examples can be found here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=moro+lantaka http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001495.html