Authenticity Of Keris - Page 3

DhenTal · 31st January 2005, 07:06 AM

Nechesh, I think all of keris was posted in this thread like a new kriss which was modificated or not real damascan.
My Keris kriss is very fake. It more like a new kriss which low knowledge to make it.
Sepang kriss, although look like a nice piece, but I consider with damascan. It can be made by now. And it look so whole.
BluErf kriss, like a new kriss too, so that he don't post it with close up picture.

perhaps I can made mistake, so please forgive me

rasdan · 31st January 2005, 08:21 AM

Hi DenThal,

U can look at previous threads to see some of Blu's keris closeup pictures. He already posted the pictures previously, so i dont think posting it again will do much help.

Ria · 31st January 2005, 09:26 AM

Hi all,

It appeared my name had been mentioned by Sepang and Sakthi777 in this topic, however I did not know, how this topic will be end up.

Sepang you wrote:
"Look at the Muzium Siber, www.kerisjawa.tk <http://www.kerisjawa.tk>, etc, you can see some image about Keris Budho. But, if I ask them, they can't give a guarantee that their keris is old"

Sakhti777 you wrote:
"Look at that. Thanks Sepang. Sure, a similar quality of blade as posted by Ria for his k.buda. Try undress the warangan, then you would see the reality"

If you considered my keris is not a such of keris buda, please be my guest! Both of you had a full right to call whatever you like about my keris! But, I would like to bring your attention, I'm very, very impressed as what Marto Suwignyo had wrote on his post, which I think he is giving a very "constructive parameters" to analyse the keris in depth. So, Sepang and Sakhti777, any specific parameter you had in mind to analyse the keris buda?

Regard,
Ria

DhenTal · 31st January 2005, 09:56 AM

If I lok arround at the thread, Ria posted many photos of kriss too. Many piece is new, but many kriss that Ria called old kriss, actualy is new piece too. Like a Jalak Budo in his hpage. It is a real new kriss. In this case, shakti777 more correctly to give opinion.

Sepang · 31st January 2005, 11:28 AM

Oh... Ria

, try to ask to Bambang Irian. Order him to go to Kediri, Madiun, Malang, Sumenep (East Java) or Jogja in order to know how the blacksmith make it. So, beware if you said that your keris called Jalak Buda. It can be just Putran.

Although I just look by photos, but I was trying to understanding about the Iron, Pasikutan ........ and Chi (he..he..). My conclusion, your keris just a putran. The iron diffrent between real old keris buda with yours. The keris buda have a hard iron wave with the unripe iron. But your iron keriss look so ripe with more modern technique metal handiwork. So, the raw your keris can be made from old keris.

.... But, I more like with DhenTal opinion about kerisses..., so to the point

nechesh · 31st January 2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sepang

.... But, I more like with DhenTal opinion about kerisses..., so to the point

Sepang, i am afraid i must diagree with you here. DhenTal is not "to the point" at all. He is merely passing judgement without giving any real criteria for his assessments. This is not to say he is incorrect. However, it is not at all helpful to the understanding of the matter to simply condemn without telling us why. I do understand that language is a bit of a problem here, but i would like to hear more reasons for these statements.
Also DhenTal, i am curious what you think about the two examples that are posted in Alan Maisey's article. Are these also fakes?

Sepang · 31st January 2005, 02:19 PM

Sorry nechesh, I don't mean like that

.
I just try to give DhenTal "the praise" about his opinion with no reason which clear

I'm think so, that he use the language to give a problem here... like ... :

DhenTal said, "..... Sepang kriss, although look like a nice piece, but I consider with damascan. It can be made by now. And it look so whole..."
.... or aother he said...

My question..., how can I made new the pamor (damascan) in my old kerisses ? May be DhenTal is a smart blacksmith

so that he can know, which the pamor is made by now or old

So... DhenTal, please give us your reason about your statements

Megantoro · 4th February 2005, 11:04 AM

First of all i would like to thank to the vikingsword forum, i realy appreciate to this forum, it is realy great forum.

The second, still in this page, Sepang bring my name here and order me to go to some places that he/she mention above.
I never know this man/woman, never met him/her, suddenly order me (Bambang Irian) to go to some places like he/she mention.

How dare you are sepang, order me to go to some places for What....????
I don't know you, for what i should follow your order, it is really-really ridicolous.

I really-really need your explanation about this, but do not use this honor forum, here bellow my e-mail bambang_irian@yahoo.com

Thank very much forum for giving me chance to use this page.

Bambang Irian, Jogjakarta. Indonesia.

BluErf · 4th February 2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DhenTal

Nechesh, I think all of keris was posted in this thread like a new kriss which was modificated or not real damascan.
My Keris kriss is very fake. It more like a new kriss which low knowledge to make it.
Sepang kriss, although look like a nice piece, but I consider with damascan. It can be made by now. And it look so whole.
BluErf kriss, like a new kriss too, so that he don't post it with close up picture.

perhaps I can made mistake, so please forgive me

Hey... be nice to my kerises ok...

You can insult me but not my 'babies'.

Anyway, out of that collage, I only reckon 2 to be 'new'. By 'new' I mean 20th century work. 1 is early 20th century, the other late 20th century. The others should be 19th century or earlier. Incidentally, both of these 2 newer kerises are of Javanese/Madurese origins. My collection consist mostly of Bugis/Sumatran/Malayan pieces. Problem of 'fake' (new made to look old) kerises are not as rampant as Javanese/Madurese kerises (although the Madurese are beginning to fake Bugis kerises, but I think they still suck at it

). That's one of the reasons why I concentrated on those areas. Anyway, when a good keris come along, I am extremely indiscriminate.

So DhenTal, are you a collector of Javanese/Madurese kerises, or do you collect Bugis/Sumatran/Malayan kerises too?

Andrew · 4th February 2005, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megantoro

How dare you are sepang, order me to go to some places for What....????
I don't know you, for what i should follow your order, it is really-really ridicolous.

I really-really need your explanation about this, but do not use this honor forum, here bellow my e-mail bambang_irian@yahoo.com

Thank very much forum for giving me chance to use this page.

Bambang Irian, Jogjakarta. Indonesia.

Welcome to the forum, Bambang Irian. I look forward to reading your substantive posts and having you contribute your base of knowlege and experience to the forum.

You are quite correct in requesting that Sepang and you correspond via email. I request that both of you (Sepang, are you listening?) not continue this here.

If you are unable to respect this request, I will take more formal action.

Andrew

Sepang · 4th February 2005, 06:03 PM

I'm sorry Andrew, thanks for your understanding. You are a good moderator, really.
I would like to apologize to Bambang Irian.. we can continue this corespond via email so that we can get an undestanding each other. Thanks for your email although you wrote a tendensius and sarcastic mail, so, really sorry.
So, sorry to Ria and another members if I have mistakes in this thread about my posted. Thanks for all the members would like to give a good discussion.
Also I would like to thanks with deep from my heart to Vikingswords forum that would like to give me an honor to be a member in this great forum.
Thanks for all.....

BluErf, I just collecting the Bugis and Malayan kerises.

Andrew · 4th February 2005, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sepang

I'm sorry Andrew, thanks for your understanding. You are a good moderator, really.
I would like to apologize to Bambang Irian.. we can continue this corespond via email so that we can get an undestanding each other. Thanks for your email although you wrote a tendensius and sarcastic mail, so, really sorry.
So, sorry to Ria and another members if I have mistakes in this thread about my posted. Thanks for all the members would like to give a good discussion.
Also I would like to thanks with deep from my heart to Vikingswords forum that would like to give me an honor to be a member in this great forum.
Thanks for all.....

BluErf, I just collecting the Bugis and Malayan kerises.

Although this is an English-language forum, our membership is varied and international. As a result cultural and, in particular, language differences can often inadvertantly contribute to misunderstandings.

Andrew · 4th February 2005, 10:53 PM

Upon re-reading this thread, it is apparent there is no reason to continue this.

I strongly suggest that the next keris thread not develop as this one did.

31st January 2005, 09:26 AM	#63
Ria Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 14	Keris Buda Hi all, It appeared my name had been mentioned by Sepang and Sakthi777 in this topic, however I did not know, how this topic will be end up. Sepang you wrote: "Look at the Muzium Siber, www.kerisjawa.tk <http://www.kerisjawa.tk>, etc, you can see some image about Keris Budho. But, if I ask them, they can't give a guarantee that their keris is old" Sakhti777 you wrote: "Look at that. Thanks Sepang. Sure, a similar quality of blade as posted by Ria for his k.buda. Try undress the warangan, then you would see the reality" If you considered my keris is not a such of keris buda, please be my guest! Both of you had a full right to call whatever you like about my keris! But, I would like to bring your attention, I'm very, very impressed as what Marto Suwignyo had wrote on his post, which I think he is giving a very "constructive parameters" to analyse the keris in depth. So, Sepang and Sakhti777, any specific parameter you had in mind to analyse the keris buda? Regard, Ria

4th February 2005, 11:04 AM	#68
Megantoro Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2	Why Me First of all i would like to thank to the vikingsword forum, i realy appreciate to this forum, it is realy great forum. The second, still in this page, Sepang bring my name here and order me to go to some places that he/she mention above. I never know this man/woman, never met him/her, suddenly order me (Bambang Irian) to go to some places like he/she mention. How dare you are sepang, order me to go to some places for What....???? I don't know you, for what i should follow your order, it is really-really ridicolous. I really-really need your explanation about this, but do not use this honor forum, here bellow my e-mail bambang_irian@yahoo.com Thank very much forum for giving me chance to use this page. Bambang Irian, Jogjakarta. Indonesia.

4th February 2005, 06:03 PM	#71
Sepang Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 33	Sorry...... with deep from my heart I'm sorry Andrew, thanks for your understanding. You are a good moderator, really. I would like to apologize to Bambang Irian.. we can continue this corespond via email so that we can get an undestanding each other. Thanks for your email although you wrote a tendensius and sarcastic mail, so, really sorry. So, sorry to Ria and another members if I have mistakes in this thread about my posted. Thanks for all the members would like to give a good discussion. Also I would like to thanks with deep from my heart to Vikingswords forum that would like to give me an honor to be a member in this great forum. Thanks for all..... BluErf, I just collecting the Bugis and Malayan kerises. Last edited by Sepang; 4th February 2005 at 06:24 PM.

31st January 2005, 07:06 AM	#61
DhenTal Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 20	Nechesh, I think all of keris was posted in this thread like a new kriss which was modificated or not real damascan. My Keris kriss is very fake. It more like a new kriss which low knowledge to make it. Sepang kriss, although look like a nice piece, but I consider with damascan. It can be made by now. And it look so whole. BluErf kriss, like a new kriss too, so that he don't post it with close up picture. perhaps I can made mistake, so please forgive me

31st January 2005, 08:21 AM	#62
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 367	Hi DenThal, U can look at previous threads to see some of Blu's keris closeup pictures. He already posted the pictures previously, so i dont think posting it again will do much help.

31st January 2005, 09:56 AM	#64
DhenTal Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 20	If I lok arround at the thread, Ria posted many photos of kriss too. Many piece is new, but many kriss that Ria called old kriss, actualy is new piece too. Like a Jalak Budo in his hpage. It is a real new kriss. In this case, shakti777 more correctly to give opinion.

31st January 2005, 11:28 AM	#65
Sepang Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 33	Oh... Ria , try to ask to Bambang Irian. Order him to go to Kediri, Madiun, Malang, Sumenep (East Java) or Jogja in order to know how the blacksmith make it. So, beware if you said that your keris called Jalak Buda. It can be just Putran. Although I just look by photos, but I was trying to understanding about the Iron, Pasikutan ........ and Chi (he..he..). My conclusion, your keris just a putran. The iron diffrent between real old keris buda with yours. The keris buda have a hard iron wave with the unripe iron. But your iron keriss look so ripe with more modern technique metal handiwork. So, the raw your keris can be made from old keris. .... But, I more like with DhenTal opinion about kerisses..., so to the point

31st January 2005, 02:19 PM	#67
Sepang Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 33	Sorry nechesh, I don't mean like that . I just try to give DhenTal "the praise" about his opinion with no reason which clear I'm think so, that he use the language to give a problem here... like ... : DhenTal said, "..... Sepang kriss, although look like a nice piece, but I consider with damascan. It can be made by now. And it look so whole..." .... or aother he said... My question..., how can I made new the pamor (damascan) in my old kerisses ? May be DhenTal is a smart blacksmith so that he can know, which the pamor is made by now or old So... DhenTal, please give us your reason about your statements

4th February 2005, 10:53 PM	#73
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Upon re-reading this thread, it is apparent there is no reason to continue this. I strongly suggest that the next keris thread not develop as this one did.