Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 9th May 2022, 11:56 PM   #1
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,408
Default Old or vintage Moro kris? Which Moro group?

I have acquired this later Moro Kris since I always wanted such a kris with a scabbard and hilt with these MOP plates and this in a better execusion and especially complete without missing plates. Have found it!
But I have several questions! Age guess? Second World War or short after? Sulu? And why is the show side different from antique examples, a question I have already long but never asked for!
Attached Images
        
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2022, 12:50 AM   #2
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

Not being a Moro aficionado, I nevertheless put my 1 ( not even 5!) cents.
IMHO, it is quite new: the ganja is not separate, its contour is just made look like one with a couple of pretty crude incisions. Also, it would be tough to imagine that a 60+ year old working example managed to keep both mother-of pearl and rattan binding so intact.
I vote for the "Cold War I" period at the earliest.
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2022, 04:08 PM   #3
CharlesS
Member
 
CharlesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,855
Default

I have to agree with Ariel. The ganja appears chiseled rather than authentic. I’d say it is mid 20th century Tausug.
CharlesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2022, 07:25 PM   #4
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,408
Default

Hello Ariel and Charles,
Thank you both for your comments!
Yes, the ganja isn't separate, this is clearly visible but not separate ganjas I've seen by examples from around the second quarter of the 20th century.
My own age guess was post WWII until the 70s last century which would mean that it is a vintage piece and I am happy with this age guess.
Like said before, long already I look for a complete example with these MOP plates at the scabbard and handle. Who have watched the market will know how seldom a complete example appears.
Of course it would have been nice to have an older blade refitted in such a dress but it's ok for me as specimen copy. And the price was right.

Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2022, 07:31 PM   #5
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,408
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
I’d say it is mid 20th century Tausug.
Hello Charles,

By private mail someone guessed that it's Sama because of the workmanship.
And again, I am fine with mid 20th century vintage.

Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2022, 07:39 PM   #6
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,408
Default

Is someone able to explain why the show side by later examples is different from antique examples?
Attached Images
  
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2022, 12:11 AM   #7
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,135
Default

I have seen these made in the 1960s and from Jolo (even though the front of the ganga could look Maguindanao).

What makes it look newer?:

1. the type of hilt wrap used
2. MOP was used starting in the 1910s and use of it for scabbards like this in WW2 and later.
3. The scabbard wranga is a later style.
4. the way the "horse hoof" style on the pommel is made is a later form from that in the 1900s.
5. The lack of a separate ganga.
6. The style of the ganga is more modern.
7. Cloth used on the scabbard is modern.

Just a few things to note. I'm sure others can add more.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2022, 03:25 PM   #8
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,408
Default

Thank you very much Jose!

Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.