French An XIII conversion?

Raymond · 22nd May 2016, 04:07 AM

Hi All, I thought that this was a converted An XIII Flintlock.

You can see the outline of the pan and the nipple has been welded on to complete the conversion to percussion circa 1822.

However there are no markings that indicate French arsenal manufacture. The only markings are a circled T on the butt cap with a number 2486, a star over a D on the left lock plate and the number 35 under an obscured mark near the hammer.

Any ideas about this pistol? Civilian conversion? Belgian?

Thanks for any info or educated guesses!

Raymond

fernando · 22nd May 2016, 11:01 AM

What about pictures, Raymond ?

Raymond · 22nd May 2016, 06:50 PM

Well let us see if I've got the pic thing right.

Fernando K · 22nd May 2016, 11:15 PM

Hello

This is not a French conversion, but a flintlock pistol, copy the French model, and is converted back to percusiom such Italian time (kingdom of Piedmont)

Affectionately. Fernando K

corrado26 · 23rd May 2016, 07:32 AM

Sorry Fernando, but I have to contradict: This typ of conversion is certainly not made in Piemont but at Liège as is the cock which is typically Liège made. See pictures of a Liège made pistol M 1816/38UM.
corrado26

GIO · 23rd May 2016, 02:18 PM

The proof mark is from Liege and was utilized from 1846 to 1893.

fernando · 23rd May 2016, 02:23 PM

That's the mark in the pistol posted by Corrado, not the example of this thread, posted by Raymond, right ?

.

corrado26 · 23rd May 2016, 02:55 PM

That's right. This pistol M 1816/38UM with ramrod was made for the heavy Belgium cavalry, whereas the same pistol without a ramrod was made for the light cavalry. The "ELG" mark was by the way used from 1810 to 1897
corrado26

Raymond · 24th May 2016, 01:17 AM

Hi Fernando, Corrado26 and GIO,

Got some good information from you gentlemen.

Thank you!

Am I correct in saying that this is ( probably) a Belgian Heavy Cavalry Pistol circa 1816 - 18?? converted from a Belgian copy of the An XIII?

I can see a sanded off (?) part of the barrel where the Leige proof could have been. Alas, it is only a blur.

Thanks again!

Ray

GIO · 24th May 2016, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

That's the mark in the pistol posted by Corrado, not the example of this thread, posted by Raymond, right ?

.

Yes, Fernando. Sorry for not having been clear.

fernando · 24th May 2016, 12:00 PM

corrado26 · 24th May 2016, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond

Am I correct in saying that this is ( probably) a Belgian Heavy Cavalry Pistol circa 1816 - 18?? converted from a Belgian copy of the An XIII?

This is not a copy of the French An13 pistol but a copy of the French M 1816/22 pistol
corrado26

Raymond · 25th May 2016, 10:33 PM

Thank You again, Corrado26,

May I ask one last question? Do you know what the "UM" stands for?

I am most appreciative of your time and patience in answering my queries!

Ray

corrado26 · 26th May 2016, 03:33 PM

UM is a German abreviation and stands for "Umänderungs-Modell", what means in French "Modèle Transformé" or in English "Transformed model" - from flintlock to Percussion
corrado26

Raymond · 28th May 2016, 01:05 AM

Danke!!

Ray

rickystl · 28th May 2016, 03:11 PM

Don't think I've ever Posted this pistol. So maybe this Thread would be a good time.
This appears to be a BELGIUM copy of a French AN-XIII Pistol. Note the iron mounts versus brass mounts as with the original French pistol. The same Belgium proof mark per above, is on the top of the breech area of the barrel.
This is the only IRON mounted copy I've ever seen. Sort of tough to date this one. But probably made during the same time period.
Rick.

22nd May 2016, 04:07 AM	#1
Raymond Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10	French An XIII conversion? Hi All, I thought that this was a converted An XIII Flintlock. You can see the outline of the pan and the nipple has been welded on to complete the conversion to percussion circa 1822. However there are no markings that indicate French arsenal manufacture. The only markings are a circled T on the butt cap with a number 2486, a star over a D on the left lock plate and the number 35 under an obscured mark near the hammer. Any ideas about this pistol? Civilian conversion? Belgian? Thanks for any info or educated guesses! Raymond

22nd May 2016, 06:50 PM	#3
Raymond Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10	Well let us see if I've got the pic thing right. Attached Images

23rd May 2016, 07:32 AM	#5
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,166	Sorry Fernando, but I have to contradict: This typ of conversion is certainly not made in Piemont but at Liège as is the cock which is typically Liège made. See pictures of a Liège made pistol M 1816/38UM. corrado26 Attached Images

23rd May 2016, 02:55 PM	#8
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,166	That's right. This pistol M 1816/38UM with ramrod was made for the heavy Belgium cavalry, whereas the same pistol without a ramrod was made for the light cavalry. The "ELG" mark was by the way used from 1810 to 1897 corrado26 Attached Images

24th May 2016, 01:17 AM	#9
Raymond Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10	Hi Fernando, Corrado26 and GIO, Got some good information from you gentlemen. Thank you! Am I correct in saying that this is ( probably) a Belgian Heavy Cavalry Pistol circa 1816 - 18?? converted from a Belgian copy of the An XIII? I can see a sanded off (?) part of the barrel where the Leige proof could have been. Alas, it is only a blur. Thanks again! Ray Last edited by fernando; 24th May 2016 at 10:03 AM. Reason: No appraisals allowed in discussion forum

22nd May 2016, 11:01 AM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	What about pictures, Raymond ?

22nd May 2016, 11:15 PM	#4
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 663	Hello This is not a French conversion, but a flintlock pistol, copy the French model, and is converted back to percusiom such Italian time (kingdom of Piedmont) Affectionately. Fernando K

23rd May 2016, 02:18 PM	#6
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 310	The proof mark is from Liege and was utilized from 1846 to 1893.

23rd May 2016, 02:23 PM	#7
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	That's the mark in the pistol posted by Corrado, not the example of this thread, posted by Raymond, right ? .

24th May 2016, 12:00 PM	#11
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638

25th May 2016, 10:33 PM	#13
Raymond Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10	Thank You again, Corrado26, May I ask one last question? Do you know what the "UM" stands for? I am most appreciative of your time and patience in answering my queries! Ray

26th May 2016, 03:33 PM	#14
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,166	UM is a German abreviation and stands for "Umänderungs-Modell", what means in French "Modèle Transformé" or in English "Transformed model" - from flintlock to Percussion corrado26

28th May 2016, 01:05 AM	#15
Raymond Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10	Danke!! Ray

28th May 2016, 03:11 PM	#16
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Don't think I've ever Posted this pistol. So maybe this Thread would be a good time. This appears to be a BELGIUM copy of a French AN-XIII Pistol. Note the iron mounts versus brass mounts as with the original French pistol. The same Belgium proof mark per above, is on the top of the breech area of the barrel. This is the only IRON mounted copy I've ever seen. Sort of tough to date this one. But probably made during the same time period. Rick. Attached Images