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Old 14th July 2017, 03:45 PM   #1
fernando
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Default A small collection of ... what do you call these ?

Some pure gold, some gold plated, some pure silver ...
From to 60 mm to 110 mm length.


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Old 14th July 2017, 04:09 PM   #2
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pencils (mechanical pencils)
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Old 14th July 2017, 04:42 PM   #3
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So that's the term i missed: mechanical (i knew the pencil part); thanks much Wayne.
I now see at Wiki that Americans call them mechanical and the Brits call them propelling.
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Old 14th July 2017, 07:28 PM   #4
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they generally use an internal collet that when you push on the top end grabs the lead and pushes it a bit out the end, then lets go as you stop pushing, and retreats back ready for the next push, thus 'propelling' the lead 'mechanically' (some use a related screw mechanism). us americans chose the latter term, the brits the former. one of the joys of english anomalies - gasoline/petrol, car boot/trunk, car windscreen/windshield, lift.elevator, tube/subway, and so on infinitum. not even counting guest words adopted from other languages.

they originally used a lead (chemical symbol Pb - levar?) wire, that's why in english we call the central graphite that does the writing the 'pencil lead'.

luckily they figured out that graphite worked better and left a darker lettering, and later found it was safer. bit more fragile, tho chewing on your pencil is a lot healthier. wears out faster tho. if you have one with a real lead centre, don't use it.

romans used lead for plumbing pipes, the exposure level from it in alkaline water is low, but cumulative, they think rome declined in part from the side effects which includes reduced intelligence, reduced fertility, mental issues, strength, etc.

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Old 14th July 2017, 11:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
they generally use an internal collet that when you push on the top end grabs the lead and pushes it a bit out the end, then lets go as you stop pushing, and retreats back ready for the next push, thus 'propelling' the lead 'mechanically' (some use a related screw mechanism ...

None of these have the collet system. Number #3, #6 and #7 function by rotation of the top. Number #1, #2 and #4 have exterior side buttons to slide out (and in) the internal core. Number #2, the pure gold hallmarked French example, slides out both a pencil and a pen. Number #5 is fix, but has an outer screwable part that tightens an interior collet that holds the crayon; it's missing a screwing protection.
Some time ago i was dumb enough to offer as a gift a silver one that slided a pen, a pencil and an erasor blade.

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Originally Posted by kronckew
...us americans chose the latter term, the brits the former. one of the joys of english anomalies - gasoline/petrol, car boot/trunk, car windscreen/windshield, lift.elevator, tube/subway, and so on infinitum. not even counting guest words adopted from other languages...

This is the kind of nuances that distinguish one country from another. Were you in Britain when they used to tag streets and parks toilets as "public conveniences" ?; it took me a while to realize what these were, when i wandered around in London, back in 1967.

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Originally Posted by kronckew
... they originally used a lead (chemical symbol Pb - levar?) wire, that's why in english we call the central graphite that does the writing the 'pencil lead'...

levar ? Pb comes from the latin 'plumbum'. Hence the 'plumber' profession.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
...romans used lead for plumbing pipes, the exposure level from it in alkaline water is low, but cumulative, they think rome declined in part from the side effects which includes reduced intelligence, reduced fertility, mental issues, strength, etc.

Oh my; i will give a pint of bitter saturated with lead to each of those guys in the other football team .
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Old 15th July 2017, 12:12 AM   #6
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Very nice!
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Old 15th July 2017, 03:55 AM   #7
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I believe the pencils that use a push button at the end are called 'clutch pencils', the ones that extend the lead by turning a part of the barrel are called 'propelling pencils' --- at least in Australia that is so.
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Old 15th July 2017, 11:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
...

levar ? Pb comes from the latin 'plumbum'. Hence the 'plumber' profession.

Oh my; i will give a pint of bitter saturated with lead to each of those guys in the other football team .



my google translator said the english noun for the metal Pb, 'lead' is 'levar' in portugese. stupid thing kept translating the word lead into a word that translated back as 'guided', as in you can lead a horse...etc. got the 'levar' bit from trying to translate lead poisoning. not too successfuly i gather. i know my periodic table by the way, and that Pb comes from the latin. it also occurs in the late roman throwing darts, plumbata, because they have a barbed steel point held to a vaned shaft of wood by a lead (plumbum again)weight cast around the join. soldiers have been throwing lead down-range for millenia (also slingers if you count slinging). they also used lead salts to 'sweeten' wine. probably not the best choice. (rome seems to have invented 'lawn darts' )
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Old 15th July 2017, 04:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
... Very nice!...

Thank you José. See the fancy top of two of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
... I believe the pencils that use a push button at the end are called 'clutch pencils', the ones that extend the lead by turning a part of the barrel are called 'propelling pencils' --- at least in Australia that is so...

Thank you Alan; by the same order of ideas, the ones that extend the lead (or pen) by sliding side rings are also propelling pencils, as propelling is the act of causing a move, and not how the move is effectuated ?. I still don't know how these these things called in portuguese.
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Old 15th July 2017, 04:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
...my google translator said the english noun for the metal Pb, 'lead' is 'levar' in portugese. stupid thing kept translating the word lead into a word that translated back as 'guided', as in you can lead a horse...etc. got the 'levar' bit from trying to translate lead poisoning. not too successfuly i gather. i know my periodic table by the way, and that Pb comes from the latin...

Traduttore, traditore...
It looks as if the term lead is a multi meaning term; lead as for pista=track, lead as for levar=take (carry) something somewhere, lead as for guiding=leading the way, lead as for lead=leader=command and lead as for chumbo=metal (plumbum).

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Originally Posted by kronckew
... they also used lead salts to 'sweeten' wine. probably not the best choice...

This somehow reminds me my time in the army, where they were said to use salt in the morning coffe, to avoid having to use much sugar to sweeten it, a more expensive stuff !!
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Old 16th July 2017, 11:42 PM   #11
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Yes, your logic on naming sounds correct to me Fernando.

The push-button mechanism as "clutch-pencil" I'm pretty certain of because I have used one in drawing flowcharts during much of my life. One could say it is one of my tools of trade.
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Old 17th July 2017, 09:12 AM   #12
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as an marine engineer from the USA, i went thru a couple semesters worth of drafting classes at the SUNY Maritime College. i also spent a couple years approving (and correcting) small passenger vessel construction drawings for the US Coast Guard before leaving and going into petrochemical plant construction management, where we also worked extensively with drawings, blueprints, piping isos, sketches. we always called them, if referring to them other than just 'pencils', as we used a lot of wooden ones, as 'mechanical' or 'mechanical drafting' pencils when ordering them. british usages vary tho. i gather from the ref. below that this still is true. i note in google.co.uk 'shopping' search they are listed as either 'mechanical' or occasionally as 'clutch' pencils. the ones listed as 'clutch' seem to use aifferent dia. leads. and are sometimes mentioned as 'artistic' drawing pencils. clutch pencils allow the lead to drop by gravity when you push the button at the top to extend out the tip, propelling ones grip and push it out a bit. both are 'mechanical'.

see also https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-d...chanical-pencil

the ones designed for extensive use and the varying diameter 'leads' (actually graphite composites) required for drafting or artwork and 'regular ones like we used in schools and light business notations had better ergonomics, were sturdier, usually a bit longer too as they did not need to be carried in a shirt pocket.

whatever you call them, they are still pencils.

anecdote: the myth of the fischer space pen costing millions to develop for writing in zero gravity while the russians just used a pencil is untrue. bits of broken and conductive graphite floating around the delicate electronics would have led (another lead homophone - pun intended) to disaster. they bought and used fischer pens too.

the use of the mundane pencil remains on the increase as it is cheap, and correctable by erasure, the other ink based devices less so. the simple wood exterior pencil still is made and sold in it's 15-20 billions annually, as are their mechanical brothers in somewhat lesser numbers.

a parting factoid:
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Old 17th July 2017, 05:07 PM   #13
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My time in the army had its operational period, although nothing at all related with pencils but, instead, needles, syringes and morphine ampoules; go figure why they sent me to paramedics.
This is one of the cases where names of things between different cultures are of an idiomatic basis and not of strict translation. We call a linear pencil a lápis; from the Latin lapis (nominative), «pedra» (rock/stone) by the Italian lapis. What would be for us a mechanical pencil would be a lapiseira, an object of tubular or prismatic shape, made of metal or plastic, where a piece of lápis is adapted ...
For the contents inside the common pencil we use the term craião, the same used to call a drawing or a art work made with the same naked graphite. I think (think) this is a galicism, from the french crayon.
For the load (shaft) of lapiseiras we use the term mina, from the celtic mina «mineral», by the French mine.
I remember in my youth lapiseiras were a selective accessory, only used by professionals and design students. A famous mark for quality was Swiss "Caran d'Ache".
Attached a picture of an old small case of tubes with colour minas, from my miscellania collection.

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Old 20th July 2017, 08:15 PM   #14
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VULPOTLOOD..... in dutch
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Old 20th July 2017, 08:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
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VULPOTLOOD..... in dutch


also known as a stifthouder or mechanisch potlood.

isn't google translate and wiki wonderful

Druckbleistift or Fallminenstift in german.
and so forth...only about 6500 languages to go...
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