Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 16th September 2013, 08:08 PM   #1
Spunjer
Member
 
Spunjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posts: 1,730
Default Slightly unusual Barung

sharing this neat piece...

not the usual type in regards to the shape of the handle. also, the ferrule is made out of braided brass wires, and closest to the blade is a solid brass piece. the matching scabbard is an art unto itself; meticulously carved ukkil on the mouth and tail. especially love the naga ukkil smacked in the middle. blade is an older style and is laminated. i believe Rick has a similar type.
please enjoy, and comments are certainly welcome
Attached Images
      
Spunjer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2013, 01:59 AM   #2
VANDOO
(deceased)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
Thumbs up

A INTERESTING BARONG WITH SEVERAL UNUSUAL FEATURES. DO ANY OF THE FEATURES HELP YOU PIN IT DOWN AS TO LOCATION AND TIME PERIOD? THE CARVING IS DIFFERENT AND I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE NAGA PATTERN YOU SPEAK OF. THE CENTER DESIGN AT THE THROAT LOOKS LIKE A LYRE (ANCIENT MUSICAL INSTURMENT) TO ME. THE FERULE BEING 5 OR 8 SIDED IS UNUSUAL AS WELL. NICE ONE
VANDOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2013, 03:13 AM   #3
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

Ron, do you think that the hilt is original to the blade? You also mention the "matching" scabbard. In the photos at least the wood of the hilt looks darker than the scabbard and i can't even tell if it is the same type of wood. I also don't see any motif from the scabbard that is repeated on the hilt so i don't quite see the "matching" thing. Frankly the hilt looks a little bit like someone outside the culture trying to mimic what they have seen on traditional barung hilts...or it could just be an oddball old hilt...

Last edited by David; 17th September 2013 at 04:22 AM.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2013, 05:15 AM   #4
ThePepperSkull
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 338
Default

Beautiful, Ron!

Octagonal Moro hilts are something you don't often encounter outside of Pira, which is what first came to mind when I saw this.
ThePepperSkull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2013, 12:16 PM   #5
CharlesS
Member
 
CharlesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,855
Default

Ron,

You already know I think this is a gorgeous piece of superb quality. I am a particularly big fan of the blade. Having seen it I feel very strongly that the scabbard and blade were "born together" as they are a perfect fit and look to match age-wise.

I cannot explain the rarity or reason for the unique nature of the octagonal Moro pieces, but we know they do exist, and the few examples seen seem to be of outstanding quality. Please see the pics below of a Moro spear with octagonal fittings discussed here some time ago.
Attached Images
    
CharlesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2013, 02:25 PM   #6
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesS
Having seen it I feel very strongly that the scabbard and blade were "born together" as they are a perfect fit and look to match age-wise.
Thanks for that confirmation Charles. Sometime photos don't quite make things so clear.
Nice spear BTW. :-)
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2013, 02:55 PM   #7
Spunjer
Member
 
Spunjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posts: 1,730
Default

from time to time, we see these oddball weapons that bucked the conventional style. octagonal shaped handles does pop up every now and then. the relatively common octagonal hilts usually have a horse hoof pattern on the end.
David, three different types of wood were used on this piece. a darker type was used for the handle; meanwhile, the scabbard has a light and dark side (see pic below).
as far as whether the barung was "born with" the scabbard:
one way to check whether the barung was born with the scabbard was to dismantle the scabbard itself. every now and then the rattan bind are missing, so this is easily done. once it's dismantle, you can lay the blade on the notch carved out for it, and since each blade is unique, it should have that "Cinderella shoes" fit to it, meaning a perfect match. in this particular piece, the binds look original to the piece, so i won't go into that, rather i placed the blade on the scabbard just to show the clearance from the sides and tip. very, very tight. hope this helps...
vandoo, the "lyre" image is the representation of the naga head in ukkil motif. notice the similarity on this barung from artzi's website. as far as location/date: Sulu. date is harder to pinpoint due to lack of provenance, but i would conservatively place it around mid 19th c...
Attached Images
    
Spunjer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2013, 03:06 PM   #8
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spunjer
as far as whether the barung was "born with" the scabbard:
one way to check whether the barung was born with the scabbard was to dismantle the scabbard itself. every now and then the rattan bind are missing, so this is easily done. once it's dismantle, you can lay the blade on the notch carved out for it, and since each blade is unique, it should have that "Cinderella shoes" fit to it, meaning a perfect match. in this particular piece, the binds look original to the piece, so i won't go into that, rather i placed the blade on the scabbard just to show the clearance from the sides and tip. very, very tight. hope this helps...
Well, what that might prove is that the scabbard was made specifically for the blade, but it doesn't prove it was "born with" it. I am not saying it was not, mind you, merely pointing out that your method is no guarantee that the sheath was made at the same time as the blade. Regardless, it is a nice and unusual piece.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2013, 03:34 PM   #9
Spunjer
Member
 
Spunjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posts: 1,730
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Well, what that might prove is that the scabbard was made specifically for the blade, but it doesn't prove it was "born with" it. I am not saying it was not, mind you, merely pointing out that your method is no guarantee that the sheath was made at the same time as the blade. Regardless, it is a nice and unusual piece.
true, true... i think i'm jumping the gun on this.

you mentioned similar motif on handle/scabbard. that is one method. most likely same craftsman for both pieces. in this case, i believe different craftsmen were involved in making the scabbard and handle, so technically not born with since it wasn't made by the same person, but made within the same time frame.
Spunjer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2013, 03:53 PM   #10
CharlesS
Member
 
CharlesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,855
Default

You both raise valid points....I think we can all agree this scabbard was made for this blade. In my mind, again having the advantage of having seen it, I think they match in age, but of course, as David points out, there are no guarantees. Lovely couple together under any circumstances!!

I also agree with Ron. Occasionally we have to get out of the mindset of a "cookie cutter" mentality that ALL sword(or blade) types must meet a prescribed formula in form and materials. Actually, I think many will agree, this is when the hobby becomes most fun...when we find that special piece that is clearly recognizable but "breaks the mold" so to speak.

Thanks again for sharing that fantastic piece!

BTW, perhaps I have overused one of my favorite catch phrases, borrowed from Artzi, that is "born together"....by that I mean in the most general sense of the term, that is, that a scabbard and blade both fit properly and appear via age and materials to be of the same era. This is not to say that the scabbard and blade must be made by the same person at the exact same time. Perhaps "belong together" would be a better and more appropriate phrase, but I likely will stick with "born together".....

Last edited by CharlesS; 17th September 2013 at 04:50 PM.
CharlesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th September 2013, 12:34 AM   #11
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,135
Default

Part of the difficulty is that sometimes the hilt may have been broken and replaced in earlier times. This one is made of narra wood, and from the inner part of the narra tree in particular.

I do love the ukkil crocodile in the middle of the wranga at top of the scabbard. Nice ukkil work period.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.