A Banjarmasin keris

BluErf · 13th December 2008, 01:47 PM

Ok, this aint a put together - but a true-blue Banjarmasin keris. Most of the time, we see Javanese, Sumatran or Bugis kerises with Banjarmasin hilts, but seldom on the perculiar kidney shaped sampir characteristic of Banjarmasin's 'indigenous' form, if I may say that.

The keris blade itself is highly unusual. You may see it as a Bugis style blade, but I can assure you the peksi is thin and straight like a Javanese. Also, the pamor does not have the characteristic ujung gunung + kulit semangka combi found in most Bugis blades. Is that a made-in-Banjarmasin blade? I don't know, but the mix of features is certainly out of the ordinary.

The hilt has lost quite a few intan stones, and nearly half of it's gilt. However, the overall look of the keris is still pretty good. Next to the coteng keris, I'd say this is my rarest keris.

A. G. Maisey · 13th December 2008, 08:51 PM

Are the stones intan, or yakut?

Yakut would be the norm.

BluErf · 14th December 2008, 12:30 AM

Hi Alan,

That's a good question. I've always assumed the stones on the Banjar hilts were intan - non-jewellery grade diamonds with a lot of inclusions.

And though I've heard of yakut stones, nobody had explained what they really are.

And how would one tell yakut stones apart from intan? I understand both are generally clear and colourless (except for the inclusions).

Thanks.

A. G. Maisey · 14th December 2008, 01:43 AM

Yakut are rose cut rock crystal.

Many dealers will try to pass off yakut as intan, and really, the only way I know to tell the difference in a buying situation is by having seen and handled a lot of both stones.

Intan throw a very hard, often blue light. Its a hard, cutting light---if that makes any sense. They have a good brilliance, most yakut have very low brilliance, and they throw a softer, whitish light.

If you examine under, say, a 3X loupe, the edges of the facets in intan will be hard, sharp and clean and the facets will be clean and level; in yakut the edges of the facets will often be bruised, a bit rounded, showing wear.

There is a very, very big difference in value between intan and yakut. Intan are not always low grade diamonds. Intan is the old fashioned rose cut, berlian is the modern brilliant cut. Its the cut that makes the difference in name, not the quality. My wife has some very good 19th century rings set with intan, and the stones are large and without inclusions, of good brilliance, and good colour---but they are still intan, because they are rose cut.

BluErf · 14th December 2008, 02:59 AM

Thanks for sharing, Alan!

That has been more substance contained in a short post than years of hearsay.

drdavid · 14th December 2008, 05:25 AM

Hi Alan,
by rock crystal do you mean good quality clear quartz crystal. My second question is if intan is the cut not the stone, what stones would qualify as intan in the sense of intan as applied to a keris handle or sheath. You have said that rose cut rock crystal is yakut so presumably intan would have to be relatively colorless and harder than rock crystal....diamond, white sapphire and topaz would be my guesses.
regards
David

A. G. Maisey · 14th December 2008, 08:07 AM

Intan are from the same raw material as diamonds, but they are rose cut diamonds, not brilliant cut diamonds. Brilliant cut diamonds are called berlian, rose cut diamonds are called intan.

Intan have the same range of colour as any other diamond, and can be yellowish, or blueish, some even seem to be almost black. But as I said previously, they are always quite brilliant and give off a very hard, cutting light.

Intan are not something that is exclusive to keris culture. It is a type of diamond, it is found in all sorts of jewellery, and it lends its name to shops and other businesses.

Sorry I didn't make this clear before, I was homing in on the quality question. Intan is not an indicator of quality, it is an indicator of cut.

I do not know if quartz crystal is the same as rock crystal. It probably is, because at lapidary shows we see big lumps of clear quartz, and smokey quartz and rose quartz. I only know yakut as rock crystal, and it is the same material that is used in Indo Persian rock crystal dagger hilts.

VVV · 14th December 2008, 11:48 AM

Nice keris with all the local details!

What's the size of it?
Is it smaller than a regular bugis keris?

Michael

tunggulametung · 14th December 2008, 04:34 PM

BluErf,

You must be traveling a lot for your collection or is it a lot of keris traveling to your collection?

If the second is the case, please share the charm/spell

.

Can we please see the pesi when possible?

BluErf · 17th December 2008, 03:09 PM

Hi all,

Sorry, was busy for past few days. Ok, I've got the pic here. Pardon me - I didn't unwrap the nylon thread around the peksi because I thought it was rather well-done and packed-in to try to unravel.

Anyhow, you can see the base and the tip, and get an idea of how tall and thin it is. The nylon thread is quite thick.

The keris blade is 11.7in, which makes it more or less the same size as a standard Bugis keris. The peksi is more than 2in tall.

To Tunggulametung - I haven't been travelling much.

But I don't know any useful spells too...

maybe it is because of a great keris that I "sacrificed" recently that brought these other rare kerises to me...

Alam Shah · 18th December 2008, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

..

maybe it is because of a great keris that I "sacrificed" recently that brought these other rare kerises to me...

Perhaps that's it.. However, I've seen, held and inspected your "sacrificed" piece.. a great sacrifice indeed..

. I'm glad it went to a friend, so that I can perform a yearly visit to see and drool on it.

Beautiful craftsmanship by a master craftsman.

mykeris · 18th December 2008, 10:38 PM

Hi, Alan , agreed with you. Most Banjarmasin hilts were decorated with Yakut stones and not Intan unless redressed. I have a few so called old intan hilts but proven as non-intan when identified using a diamond tester. All these Yakut stones are actually soft with measurement of 4 to 5 on diamond scale. Intan or Diamond shares the same hardness that is more than 9. Bluerf, pls get your intan hilts tested for assurance!

David · 19th December 2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykeris

All these Yakut stones are actually soft with measurement of 4 to 5 on diamond scale.

Well, if Yakut=rock crystal=quartz crystal it should read 7 on the Mohs scale (i assume that this is what you mean by diamond scale. Mohs is the standard scale for mineral hardness). Flourite would be a 4, apatite is 5. Both these stones are perhaps too soft for this purpose.

BluErf · 19th December 2008, 01:44 PM

Well, if intan refers to rose-cut diamonds, which are not low grade, I don't really need to test my hilt, coz for the price I paid, they can't be diamonds, or someone some where has lost a big bundle selling the keris!

I'm pretty happy going with the idea that the stones are yakut. I still love the keris!

A. G. Maisey · 19th December 2008, 08:51 PM

Not necessarily low grade, Kai Wee.

They might be of incredibly low grade; they might also be perfect blue whites.

But with the rose cut, they become "intan".

tunggulametung · 20th December 2008, 11:59 PM

BluErf, thank you for sharing the picture of the peksi and all for some knowledge here. I have a short memory but I guess I saw the keris twin on Krisses a Critical Biography book the other day. Short of cash and have to spent the rest on chicklit bestseller series so maybe next time I get that tiny book

.

BluErf · 25th December 2008, 02:24 AM

Hi Alan,

Ok, got it. It's the cut and base material, not the quality.

Hi Tunggulametung,

That one's a prince! Mine's maybe a middleclass farmer...

13th December 2008, 01:47 PM	#1
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	A Banjarmasin keris Ok, this aint a put together - but a true-blue Banjarmasin keris. Most of the time, we see Javanese, Sumatran or Bugis kerises with Banjarmasin hilts, but seldom on the perculiar kidney shaped sampir characteristic of Banjarmasin's 'indigenous' form, if I may say that. The keris blade itself is highly unusual. You may see it as a Bugis style blade, but I can assure you the peksi is thin and straight like a Javanese. Also, the pamor does not have the characteristic ujung gunung + kulit semangka combi found in most Bugis blades. Is that a made-in-Banjarmasin blade? I don't know, but the mix of features is certainly out of the ordinary. The hilt has lost quite a few intan stones, and nearly half of it's gilt. However, the overall look of the keris is still pretty good. Next to the coteng keris, I'd say this is my rarest keris. Attached Images

17th December 2008, 03:09 PM	#10
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi all, Sorry, was busy for past few days. Ok, I've got the pic here. Pardon me - I didn't unwrap the nylon thread around the peksi because I thought it was rather well-done and packed-in to try to unravel. Anyhow, you can see the base and the tip, and get an idea of how tall and thin it is. The nylon thread is quite thick. The keris blade is 11.7in, which makes it more or less the same size as a standard Bugis keris. The peksi is more than 2in tall. To Tunggulametung - I haven't been travelling much. But I don't know any useful spells too... maybe it is because of a great keris that I "sacrificed" recently that brought these other rare kerises to me... Attached Images

13th December 2008, 08:51 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Are the stones intan, or yakut? Yakut would be the norm.

14th December 2008, 12:30 AM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Alan, That's a good question. I've always assumed the stones on the Banjar hilts were intan - non-jewellery grade diamonds with a lot of inclusions. And though I've heard of yakut stones, nobody had explained what they really are. And how would one tell yakut stones apart from intan? I understand both are generally clear and colourless (except for the inclusions). Thanks.

14th December 2008, 01:43 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Yakut are rose cut rock crystal. Many dealers will try to pass off yakut as intan, and really, the only way I know to tell the difference in a buying situation is by having seen and handled a lot of both stones. Intan throw a very hard, often blue light. Its a hard, cutting light---if that makes any sense. They have a good brilliance, most yakut have very low brilliance, and they throw a softer, whitish light. If you examine under, say, a 3X loupe, the edges of the facets in intan will be hard, sharp and clean and the facets will be clean and level; in yakut the edges of the facets will often be bruised, a bit rounded, showing wear. There is a very, very big difference in value between intan and yakut. Intan are not always low grade diamonds. Intan is the old fashioned rose cut, berlian is the modern brilliant cut. Its the cut that makes the difference in name, not the quality. My wife has some very good 19th century rings set with intan, and the stones are large and without inclusions, of good brilliance, and good colour---but they are still intan, because they are rose cut.

14th December 2008, 02:59 AM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Thanks for sharing, Alan! That has been more substance contained in a short post than years of hearsay.

14th December 2008, 05:25 AM	#6
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 369	Hi Alan, by rock crystal do you mean good quality clear quartz crystal. My second question is if intan is the cut not the stone, what stones would qualify as intan in the sense of intan as applied to a keris handle or sheath. You have said that rose cut rock crystal is yakut so presumably intan would have to be relatively colorless and harder than rock crystal....diamond, white sapphire and topaz would be my guesses. regards David

14th December 2008, 08:07 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Intan are from the same raw material as diamonds, but they are rose cut diamonds, not brilliant cut diamonds. Brilliant cut diamonds are called berlian, rose cut diamonds are called intan. Intan have the same range of colour as any other diamond, and can be yellowish, or blueish, some even seem to be almost black. But as I said previously, they are always quite brilliant and give off a very hard, cutting light. Intan are not something that is exclusive to keris culture. It is a type of diamond, it is found in all sorts of jewellery, and it lends its name to shops and other businesses. Sorry I didn't make this clear before, I was homing in on the quality question. Intan is not an indicator of quality, it is an indicator of cut. I do not know if quartz crystal is the same as rock crystal. It probably is, because at lapidary shows we see big lumps of clear quartz, and smokey quartz and rose quartz. I only know yakut as rock crystal, and it is the same material that is used in Indo Persian rock crystal dagger hilts.

14th December 2008, 11:48 AM	#8
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Nice keris with all the local details! What's the size of it? Is it smaller than a regular bugis keris? Michael

14th December 2008, 04:34 PM	#9
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	BluErf, You must be traveling a lot for your collection or is it a lot of keris traveling to your collection? If the second is the case, please share the charm/spell . Can we please see the pesi when possible?

18th December 2008, 10:38 PM	#12
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Hi, Alan , agreed with you. Most Banjarmasin hilts were decorated with Yakut stones and not Intan unless redressed. I have a few so called old intan hilts but proven as non-intan when identified using a diamond tester. All these Yakut stones are actually soft with measurement of 4 to 5 on diamond scale. Intan or Diamond shares the same hardness that is more than 9. Bluerf, pls get your intan hilts tested for assurance!

19th December 2008, 01:44 PM	#14
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Well, if intan refers to rose-cut diamonds, which are not low grade, I don't really need to test my hilt, coz for the price I paid, they can't be diamonds, or someone some where has lost a big bundle selling the keris! I'm pretty happy going with the idea that the stones are yakut. I still love the keris!

19th December 2008, 08:51 PM	#15
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Not necessarily low grade, Kai Wee. They might be of incredibly low grade; they might also be perfect blue whites. But with the rose cut, they become "intan".

20th December 2008, 11:59 PM	#16
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	BluErf, thank you for sharing the picture of the peksi and all for some knowledge here. I have a short memory but I guess I saw the keris twin on Krisses a Critical Biography book the other day. Short of cash and have to spent the rest on chicklit bestseller series so maybe next time I get that tiny book .

25th December 2008, 02:24 AM	#17
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Alan, Ok, got it. It's the cut and base material, not the quality. Hi Tunggulametung, That one's a prince! Mine's maybe a middleclass farmer...