Balatos -- swords with balls

[Dajak]

Hi Bill why you don't take a few books that shows old Nias Warriors
first you can see on the pics that the size off the balls are a lot bigger
and look like basket's instead off balls
And on the old pics from before 1900 you will notice that they use tiger crocodile and shark teeth no pig teeth

Take a look in an museum data base

I think that is the point Cyclura99 wanna make knowledge is very important
than what somebody thinks is good that is why it is hard to see good quality these days there is a lot fake on the market todays and if people see to much off this stuf they think that is the good quality the prices for real old Nias sword is very high on the moment and almost not for sale but you can buy at the moment a lot off nias belato's whit no sign off use on the handle
and scabbard for cheap prices better get 1 real piece than maybe 5 fake one s that is the piont what Cyclura99 want s to tell

don't take it to personally

regards Ben

[Cyclura99]

IF I have the Knowledge?????????? Let me see well I was able to buy two Authentic 19th Nias swords you passed on at the Skinners Auction.You were there and probably had them in your hands . I just had poor jpegs pictures to make a decsion ...What was your excuse oh those do not interest me? I thought the point was to Buy the real things not FAKES....

I am a collector part of me wants to post what is real authentic objects the other part says why educate the competion ie other collectors . That might be selfish of me but I think all real collectors are a bit selfish.

As for a so called collector who is really a picture collector I do not have time for those people . They have to have others ok there stuff to make them feel good at what they buy.

Thanks for leaving the real authentic stuff to the real collectors who can make up there minds on what they collect in minutes ,rather than waiting for a e-mail replies from several others who tell you what to BUY.Thats Fact not FICTION .

I do not need to post pictures on this forum to validate my collection or my knowledge.

Advice:
Read a book study what you collect before you collect it helps ... No more help...

CY

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Cyclura99

I am a collector part of me wants to post what is real authentic objects the other part says why educate the competion ie other collectors . That might be selfish of me but I think all real collectors are a bit selfish.CY

I think sharing knowledge is why we are here, and the fellowship that comes from that sharing.

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but this is a Forum, right? I am here to learn and post pictures and share what I know. I do not see this world as limited in collectables. I certainly don't see my forum mates as competition.

Ethnographic weapons study is a great hobby. It should be fun. Fellowship. Sharing and learning. That is what I am here for.

And, yes, as many of you know -- I ask for help --- Many of you are far more knowledgeable than me. Many have great knowledge in a certain area. So I ask for help, and since I know the person is honest and knowledgeable, I factor that into my buying. I don't pretend to know everything about any area.

Usually I don't say who the dealer is and I NEVER reveal the names of people who help me. And I often buy from them. Some buy from me. We are one big happy family. And sometimes we gossip like old hens about what is happening, which dealers to avoid. Who has something one of us might like.


The bottom line here is that Cy / Chris sent me a lot of pictures of pieces I did not want. He is just angry and bitter.

Sorry Chris I guess we just did not connect. You have pieces you like that did not appeal to me. That's life. --- Moving down the salad bar now. I don't care to respond to this bitterness any more.

I also think that IF Chris has knowledge, he could share it. A lot of people could benefit. ---- IF he has knowledge and can present it with less bitterness. We will never know his truth unless he does.

Wasn't there someone here recently named "Willie," who said a lot and showed us nothing?

I have a Moro Kriss to stain, and some books to read. and some people to email.

Where is that "ignore" button?

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi Bill why you don't take a few books that shows old Nias Warriors
first you can see on the pics that the size off the balls are a lot bigger
and look like basket's instead off balls
And on the old pics from before 1900 you will notice that they use tiger crocodile and shark teeth no pig teeth

Take a look in an museum data base

I think that is the point Cyclura99 wanna make knowledge is very important
than what somebody thinks is good that is why it is hard to see good quality these days there is a lot fake on the market todays and if people see to much off this stuf they think that is the good quality the prices for real old Nias sword is very high on the moment and almost not for sale but you can buy at the moment a lot off nias belato's whit no sign off use on the handle
and scabbard for cheap prices better get 1 real piece than maybe 5 fake one s that is the piont what Cyclura99 wants to tell

don't take it to personally

regards Ben

Ben,

Thank you for the well written response. You have a good attitude and are, of course, correct. Knowledge is very important.

Is a balato made for dance 50 years ago fake? One made 25 years ago, fake? One made for dance 200 years ago, fake? Was it made in a basement in California?

If the workmanship is good and you like it, so what?

And in some instances I do go for absolutely correct pieces. But often I get things I just like. I admit that I have only been collecting a few years. I don't have in-depth knowledge of a lot of areas. I buy what I like. I am the one who has to live with them.

I have a few books and am willing and ready to buy more. I like "Nias Tribal Treasures." Can you recommend others? Museums? I am planning a jaunt to Indonesia and Malaysia. Where can I learn more?

I also have an issue of National Geographics that has some early Nias pictures. I like the armor also.

A good friend and exceptionally knowledgable dealer in California had a wonderful Nias armor, shield, Balato, etc that he sold as an ensemble. Unfortunately he had just sold it when I found out about it. I would have bought it. Neat setup. Great display!

My issue with Chris / Cy is his belligerent attitude. I never claimed anything about these balatos except I like the ones I have. Never made an age claim. Never said they were used for dance, war, headhunting, or chopping lettuce.

I just said that I like them. If he dosen't like them I suggest that he move on down the salad bar until he finds something that he does like. But I don't think it is proper to criticise like he just did in an open forum.

Private email is more appropriate,

One of mine came from Artzi Yoram of Oriental Arms, very respected dealer. Artzi said it was "early 20th or late 19th c. I don't know much about Chris, but under the circumstances I'd take Artzi's provenance. Artzi has been around longer than most of us and really knows his pieces. He is also a gentleman and a dear friend. His prices are fair.

Maybe my Balato are are more recent, so what? I like them.

I have seen one that Chris now has in his collection at the Skinners Auction in Boston. If I had wanted it, it would be now in my collection. It sold for $1500 or so. It was a nice piece, but no real juice to me. Possibly more authentic than mine, I don't know. I will not say bad things about it. It looked OK to me.

IF Chris knows so much, share it with the rest of us. It is easy to say, "I know more than you, but I don't need to tell it."

All I am suggesting is that he put his information on the Forum. Share the knowledge.

And relax a little. Life is too short to use a lot of capital letters.