A very old Warrior for comment

Gavin Nugent · 16th May 2008, 06:35 AM

Indian Feranghi, Ex Sothebys UK, 17th century. Broad European blade with a plain iron hilt, the blade has many battle scars. Nice and unusual. If anyone can tell more about how the whole Feranghi thing came about that would be great as I don't see any reference to it in the reference material I have.

regards

Gav

Gavin Nugent · 16th May 2008, 11:37 AM

Here's a link to Katana's sword from a while back. Lots of good content but I still can't get an understanding of the term "Feranghi, Ferangi, Feranji" and it's exact origins.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ht=indian+sword

regards

Gav

katana · 16th May 2008, 11:42 AM

Hi Gav,
to be a 'true' Firangi ...the blade would be (generally) European. To help date / confirm could you give the dimensions etc of the blade plus any markings.

"Firangi Farang phirangi. Literally the Portuguese, or foreigner. A mahratta cut and thrust, straight-bladed sword. The blades were either imported from Europe by the Portuguese, or made in imitation of them....."
quoted from Stone's Glossary of Arms and Armour

Regards David

Bill M · 16th May 2008, 01:46 PM

G'Day Gav,

My understanding is that "Feranghi, Ferangi, Feranji" basically means "Foreign."

This may be why you have definition problems. You are looking for a specific characteristic and the only characteristic is that some part, usually the blade, is foreign to the specific culture.

As in an European blade on a tulwar mount. This would be Ferangi in India to use an India term.

I am open to other interpretations as mine, here, is from memory. I don't have specific references and don't have time right now to search.

BTW, nice scooter in your 4th picture. "Scooter" in an "in" term amongst Harley riders in the USA.

ariel · 16th May 2008, 03:38 PM

The term "firangi" ( or something like it phonetically) became so popular all over the East that the wily Italian/German manufacturers started producing trade blades inscribed " Fringia". That right away advertised the blade as a true Firangi. Marketing miracle!

fernando · 16th May 2008, 08:57 PM

Hi Gav,

Following David's and Bill's introductions, i would add that it appears to be like that shampoo ... "two in one"

The word has a number of variations and is a corruption of Frank (certain European peoples ) and basically means foreigner.
It was used in the derrogatory sense, with a racist connotation.
On the other hand, as Portuguese were the first foreigners in most of those places, Firangi would also or implicitly mean Portuguese.
In colonial Sry Lanka, "Parangi" was associated to both Portuguese people and a form of syphilis introduced by them

.
A tourist spot in Malaysian Penang is called "Batu Feringgi" as once visited by the Portuguese fleet ... no syphilis version this time

Fernando

Gavin Nugent · 17th May 2008, 08:30 AM

Thanks guys, a wealth of information! STD's and all! Thanks too Bill, it is a nice scooter, we call them that here too, it is an 07 Deuce, not quite a weapon but nice to behold none the less. As Harley have ceased production of this model now, it is now a instant classic :-P

Back to the important stuff;

It does carry a European blade of huge proportions and from the reference books I have it most likely appears to be due to length and shape, a horseman's sabre from between 1680-1720.

Over all this piece measures in at 47 inches, the blade is 37&1/4 X 1&3/4 inches across with a thick spine for 27inches of the blade and is very comfortable in the hand.

regards

Gav

ariel · 17th May 2008, 01:27 PM

The only thing to add is that swords with curved European weapons ( cavalry, just like the onw shown here) were also locally known as "Alemani". ie. German ( in French rendition).

fernando · 17th May 2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

... known as "Alemani". ie. German ( in French rendition).

Amazing ... it has an Italian flavour

16th May 2008, 06:35 AM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	A very old Warrior for comment Indian Feranghi, Ex Sothebys UK, 17th century. Broad European blade with a plain iron hilt, the blade has many battle scars. Nice and unusual. If anyone can tell more about how the whole Feranghi thing came about that would be great as I don't see any reference to it in the reference material I have. regards Gav Attached Images

16th May 2008, 11:37 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	further reading and viewing of another Here's a link to Katana's sword from a while back. Lots of good content but I still can't get an understanding of the term "Feranghi, Ferangi, Feranji" and it's exact origins. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ht=indian+sword regards Gav Last edited by freebooter; 17th May 2008 at 08:33 AM.

16th May 2008, 11:42 AM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Gav, to be a 'true' Firangi ...the blade would be (generally) European. To help date / confirm could you give the dimensions etc of the blade plus any markings. "Firangi Farang phirangi. Literally the Portuguese, or foreigner. A mahratta cut and thrust, straight-bladed sword. The blades were either imported from Europe by the Portuguese, or made in imitation of them....." quoted from Stone's Glossary of Arms and Armour Regards David Last edited by katana; 16th May 2008 at 01:46 PM.

17th May 2008, 08:30 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks fellas Thanks guys, a wealth of information! STD's and all! Thanks too Bill, it is a nice scooter, we call them that here too, it is an 07 Deuce, not quite a weapon but nice to behold none the less. As Harley have ceased production of this model now, it is now a instant classic :-P Back to the important stuff; It does carry a European blade of huge proportions and from the reference books I have it most likely appears to be due to length and shape, a horseman's sabre from between 1680-1720. Over all this piece measures in at 47 inches, the blade is 37&1/4 X 1&3/4 inches across with a thick spine for 27inches of the blade and is very comfortable in the hand. regards Gav Last edited by freebooter; 17th May 2008 at 12:52 PM.

16th May 2008, 01:46 PM	#4
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	G'Day Gav, My understanding is that "Feranghi, Ferangi, Feranji" basically means "Foreign." This may be why you have definition problems. You are looking for a specific characteristic and the only characteristic is that some part, usually the blade, is foreign to the specific culture. As in an European blade on a tulwar mount. This would be Ferangi in India to use an India term. I am open to other interpretations as mine, here, is from memory. I don't have specific references and don't have time right now to search. BTW, nice scooter in your 4th picture. "Scooter" in an "in" term amongst Harley riders in the USA.

16th May 2008, 03:38 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The term "firangi" ( or something like it phonetically) became so popular all over the East that the wily Italian/German manufacturers started producing trade blades inscribed " Fringia". That right away advertised the blade as a true Firangi. Marketing miracle!

16th May 2008, 08:57 PM	#6
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	Hi Gav, Following David's and Bill's introductions, i would add that it appears to be like that shampoo ... "two in one" The word has a number of variations and is a corruption of Frank (certain European peoples ) and basically means foreigner. It was used in the derrogatory sense, with a racist connotation. On the other hand, as Portuguese were the first foreigners in most of those places, Firangi would also or implicitly mean Portuguese. In colonial Sry Lanka, "Parangi" was associated to both Portuguese people and a form of syphilis introduced by them . A tourist spot in Malaysian Penang is called "Batu Feringgi" as once visited by the Portuguese fleet ... no syphilis version this time Fernando

17th May 2008, 01:27 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The only thing to add is that swords with curved European weapons ( cavalry, just like the onw shown here) were also locally known as "Alemani". ie. German ( in French rendition).