PLEASE, COULD YOU HELP ME?

Flavio · 13th June 2005, 06:26 PM

HELLO GUYS, THIS IS ONE OF MY LAST PURCHASE. I THINK THAT IS A BALI-KOMO KNIFE OR LEKA, BUT MAYBE I'M COMPLETELY WRONG. THE SCABBARD IS WOOD AND ON THE HANDLE THERE ARE SOME ALUMINUM STRIPS (I THINK). ALL IDEAS ABOUT THIS ARE WELCOLME, THANK YOU (SORRY FOR THE AWFUL PICS

)

Tim Simmons · 13th June 2005, 06:39 PM

Hello Flavio, I like that, my kind of thing.What source have you got those names from?I have one book where they are refered to as balingbwa.Tim

Lew · 13th June 2005, 06:56 PM

Hi Flavio

Here is a link to Artzi's website with the same type of dagger which is listed as Leka.

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=183

Hope this helps.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 13th June 2005, 07:15 PM

Hello Lew, from more than one source that I have, I would say with the slimmer more angular blade shape it has a Tetela influence, who according to a map ,although in the same region are quite some way to the south of the Leka.I want one great scabbard.Tim

Lew · 13th June 2005, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Hello Lew, from more than one source that I have, I would say with the slimmer more angular blade shape it has a Tetela influence, who according to a map ,although in the same region are quite some way to the south of the Leka.I want one great scabbard.Tim

Come now Tim

Your British! You need to control yourself (Stiff upper lip and all that stuff)

Good things come to those who wait. Now this dagger looks similar to the Leka I picked it up last year from Artzi's table at Timonium.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 13th June 2005, 08:19 PM

Hi Lew ,when I see things like this and I do not have one,I am left muttering whatwhatwhat! while that siff upper lip trembles.The differences are subtle,I do not really want to spit hairs with you, they are as I said from the same region.Though I could warm my scanner up

Lew · 13th June 2005, 08:24 PM

Tim

I can smell the toner warming up all the way over hear

Lew

Tim Simmons · 13th June 2005, 09:13 PM

Hi Lew, this has turned out more difficult than I had imagined.I have not found a knife labeled Leka only other southern forms with the rounded sides at the widest part of the blade.I shall have a look at the Leka northen neighbours.To illustrate my opinion is going to take a little time and a lot of use or scanner, camera, and editing, but talking African weapons is better than TV.In the meantime this map will show people where we are disscusing.

Flavio · 13th June 2005, 10:20 PM

Hello Tim and Lew. For the Leka i have already see the knife of Lew's link. For the Bali - Komo in a site some time ago I have find the knife in the picture attached that was attributed to this tribe that, onestly, i don't know before

, but that is very similar to mine.

Tim Simmons · 14th June 2005, 07:32 PM

Hello again, these pictures illustrate my thinking.I am not an expert and we are discussing variation between many related people in one small cultral area.The first two pictures are Tetela Knives {some of you will already have these pictures}note the slim angular blades and style of decorative metalwork on the handle.The last picture represents knives of the Hamba,Yela,Kela and other neighbours seen on the map, where we see the rounded sides to the knife, still some way from the Leka.I am only spliting hairs but it is fun and might prompt somebody with more information.Tim

Flavio · 15th June 2005, 06:23 PM

Hello Tim, I'm completely agree with you. Often we can see blades that are clearly attributed to a specific tribe, mounted on an handle evidently of another tribe. I Think that this was quite normal among tribes in a zone quite narrow.

Conogre · 17th June 2005, 12:27 AM

I would have to concur as well, particularly when you take into consideration that often the blade and hilt are by two different people, often from different tribes as well, considering that trading blades appears to have been the norm, rather than the exception.
My own personal theory is that the exquisite textbook versions usually pictured are probably chief's or high ranking people within the tribal council, while the typical tribesman/warrior were likely to have atypical specimens that were similar in style and then dressed according to the owners tribal preferences......rehilting as the warrior advanced in rank would have been a strong possibility as well.
Lastly, this would also likely occur in scavenged blades from the field of battle after an inter-tribal conflict.
I also suspect that the Leka and Lega may well be synonamous as consonants are often switched in phonetic spellings.
Mike

Tim Simmons · 12th July 2005, 04:56 PM

I got this one today, from ebay, the first ebay purchase I have liked as soon as I opened the parcel. Tim

Lew · 12th July 2005, 06:13 PM

Tim

You lucky dog you! Now how did I miss that one? Congrats on a nice acquistion.

Lew

13th June 2005, 06:26 PM	#1
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	PLEASE, COULD YOU HELP ME? HELLO GUYS, THIS IS ONE OF MY LAST PURCHASE. I THINK THAT IS A BALI-KOMO KNIFE OR LEKA, BUT MAYBE I'M COMPLETELY WRONG. THE SCABBARD IS WOOD AND ON THE HANDLE THERE ARE SOME ALUMINUM STRIPS (I THINK). ALL IDEAS ABOUT THIS ARE WELCOLME, THANK YOU (SORRY FOR THE AWFUL PICS ) Attached Images

13th June 2005, 06:39 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Hello Flavio, I like that, my kind of thing.What source have you got those names from?I have one book where they are refered to as balingbwa.Tim Last edited by Tim Simmons; 13th June 2005 at 07:03 PM. Reason: found another book and spelling,spelling again

13th June 2005, 07:15 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Hello Lew, from more than one source that I have, I would say with the slimmer more angular blade shape it has a Tetela influence, who according to a map ,although in the same region are quite some way to the south of the Leka.I want one great scabbard.Tim Last edited by Tim Simmons; 13th June 2005 at 07:37 PM. Reason: spelling

13th June 2005, 10:20 PM	#9
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Tim and Lew. For the Leka i have already see the knife of Lew's link. For the Bali - Komo in a site some time ago I have find the knife in the picture attached that was attributed to this tribe that, onestly, i don't know before , but that is very similar to mine. Attached Images

14th June 2005, 07:32 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Hello again, these pictures illustrate my thinking.I am not an expert and we are discussing variation between many related people in one small cultral area.The first two pictures are Tetela Knives {some of you will already have these pictures}note the slim angular blades and style of decorative metalwork on the handle.The last picture represents knives of the Hamba,Yela,Kela and other neighbours seen on the map, where we see the rounded sides to the knife, still some way from the Leka.I am only spliting hairs but it is fun and might prompt somebody with more information.Tim Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 14th June 2005 at 08:15 PM.

13th June 2005, 06:56 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Flavio Here is a link to Artzi's website with the same type of dagger which is listed as Leka. http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=183 Hope this helps. Lew

13th June 2005, 08:19 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Hi Lew ,when I see things like this and I do not have one,I am left muttering whatwhatwhat! while that siff upper lip trembles.The differences are subtle,I do not really want to spit hairs with you, they are as I said from the same region.Though I could warm my scanner up

13th June 2005, 08:24 PM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Tim I can smell the toner warming up all the way over hear Lew

13th June 2005, 09:13 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Hi Lew, this has turned out more difficult than I had imagined.I have not found a knife labeled Leka only other southern forms with the rounded sides at the widest part of the blade.I shall have a look at the Leka northen neighbours.To illustrate my opinion is going to take a little time and a lot of use or scanner, camera, and editing, but talking African weapons is better than TV.In the meantime this map will show people where we are disscusing.

15th June 2005, 06:23 PM	#11
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Tim, I'm completely agree with you. Often we can see blades that are clearly attributed to a specific tribe, mounted on an handle evidently of another tribe. I Think that this was quite normal among tribes in a zone quite narrow.

17th June 2005, 12:27 AM	#12
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	I would have to concur as well, particularly when you take into consideration that often the blade and hilt are by two different people, often from different tribes as well, considering that trading blades appears to have been the norm, rather than the exception. My own personal theory is that the exquisite textbook versions usually pictured are probably chief's or high ranking people within the tribal council, while the typical tribesman/warrior were likely to have atypical specimens that were similar in style and then dressed according to the owners tribal preferences......rehilting as the warrior advanced in rank would have been a strong possibility as well. Lastly, this would also likely occur in scavenged blades from the field of battle after an inter-tribal conflict. I also suspect that the Leka and Lega may well be synonamous as consonants are often switched in phonetic spellings. Mike

12th July 2005, 04:56 PM	#13
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	I got this one today, from ebay, the first ebay purchase I have liked as soon as I opened the parcel. Tim Attached Images

12th July 2005, 06:13 PM	#14
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Tim You lucky dog you! Now how did I miss that one? Congrats on a nice acquistion. Lew