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Old 16th March 2007, 11:05 AM   #1
Sikh_soldier
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Default Appealing to all UK collectors- urgent !!!

The proposed ban on the import, sale and manufacture of swords will have an adverse effect on legitimate practitioners, collectors and manufacturers. Actual sword related crime is very rare and does not warrant a ban that affects the cultural activities of thousands of legitimate martial artists, collectors and smiths. Current legislation is quite adequate to deal with violent crime connected with bladed weapons. New legislation is merely for show. Enforcing such a ban will also affect cultural events such as Scottish Sword Dancing and many Sikh festivals. We urge the PM to reconsider this knee jerk reaction to media influenced scaremongering.


please give your support there are over 6000 signatures as we speak
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/swords/?showall=1
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Old 16th March 2007, 11:19 AM   #2
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Default wow

I am so so glad i do not live in the UK anymore

What a nanny state it has become.

Pathetic

So pathetic
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Old 16th March 2007, 01:40 PM   #3
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I've "stuck" this thread. Good luck, fellows.
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Old 16th March 2007, 04:36 PM   #4
~Alaung_Hpaya~
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And I was about to start collecting


Anyway signed petition .
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Old 16th March 2007, 09:08 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenlander
I am so so glad i do not live in the UK anymore

What a nanny state it has become.

Pathetic

So pathetic



Unfortunately, I do ....

Well done Sikh soldier for bringing this to my notice .. needless to say I signed 10 seconds after reading the post I expect to find that collectors and martial art exponants will end up having to be licenced......probably incuring an annual fee......to further finance our demented government coffers.......Gaud bless Mary Poppins
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Old 17th March 2007, 05:15 AM   #6
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Don't feel too bad, the way things are going the Sheeple are probably going to ram Billary into office in 2008, and with the Democrats controlling the House and the Senate, Schumer, Feinstein and their ilk can finally get around to gutting that pesky Bill of Rights that gets in the way of so much of their Perfect Society....almost makes me hope for an Armageddon-class meteorite to show up and make room on the evolutionary ladder, humans are too stupid to deserve the top slot....

For what it's worth I signed the petition as well, not that they'll listen too much to a 'colonial'...I signed it as "A descendant of British colonists living in the USA"

Last edited by FenrisWolf : 17th March 2007 at 05:21 AM. Reason: additional text
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Old 17th March 2007, 10:20 AM   #7
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This is a panic by the "Moral Majority" type brigade. I question its success in a real debate. The ruling class in the UK rather like antique weapons and new swords as well.
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Old 17th March 2007, 08:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Simmons
This is a panic by the "Moral Majority" type brigade. I question its success in a real debate. The ruling class in the UK rather like antique weapons and new swords as well.
The problem is that there will be no 'real debate' on the issue. If there was, and the politicos actually listened to the concerns of their constituency, it might do some good, but as I understand it MPs are for the most part only concerned with toeing the party line, not with serving the actual needs of those who voted him or her into office.

I'm sure those who live in the UK are far more aware of the double standards than non-Brits are, but let's face it, none of the restrictions being passed will affect the upper crust. Not that we're much better, out 'upper crust' is determined more by money and celebrity status than by birth.

No, the 'ruling class' in Britain will keep their guns and their collections, while the lower classes, the ones who really need the means to protect themselves, will be disarmed. There was a huge outcry in England a few years ago when a homeowner used an unlicensed shotgun to protect himself after his home was burglarized repeatedly by the same criminals. Despite the fact that the burglars were career criminals with a history of violence, the homeowner was charged and convicted for murder, and the surviving burglar was even consulted as to how harsh a sentence he felt his 'attacker' deserved! The court's position was that they needed to make an example of the homeowner to discourage others from 'taking the law into their own hands'. Last I heard the homeowner was serving a life sentence while the burglar received early release due to the 'pain and suffering' he received at the hands of the homeowner....
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Old 19th March 2007, 12:42 PM   #9
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I wish I could sign it as an EU member or something.
This would be ridiculous.

Imagine how many antique dealers will be harmed by this.
And auction houses.

Hope this will be stopped.

Good luck,
Willem
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Old 19th March 2007, 03:25 PM   #10
Guillaume J.
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Default strange laws

I'm sorry I am french! I can't sign the register!
Good luck to England.
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Old 24th March 2007, 08:37 AM   #11
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Default does that mean ?

If this goes through does it mean that there will be a flood of cut price antique swords on the market? It could be a windfall for other collectors. Yipeee
We also won't have all those rich British collectors bidding on e-bay
See, there is a silver lining to every cloud.

Sorry just a bit of fun in an otherwise bad situation!
But seriously this law will never go through, it will be more of a mess than the dangerous dogs act. DDA
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Old 24th March 2007, 06:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenlander
If this goes through does it mean that there will be a flood of cut price antique swords on the market? It could be a windfall for other collectors. Yipeee
We also won't have all those rich British collectors bidding on e-bay
See, there is a silver lining to every cloud.

Sorry just a bit of fun in an otherwise bad situation!
But seriously this law will never go through, it will be more of a mess than the dangerous dogs act. DDA

Trust me, the way the climate is in the UK, once a law like this makes it onto the Parliament floor, getting it passed is little more than a formality. Don't compare the way politics works in the US to the UK, their system is just weird. This law is already in effect in New Zealand and a couple other British Commonwealth nations. At least in New Zealand they had the excuse of a few nutjobs trying to revisit their headhunter roots as an excuse.

The problem is that despite the basic tenets of British Common Law, self defense and the defense of one's property is no longer considered justification for the possesion or use of arms of any kind. Sporting use or collecting is it, so if you aren't an aristo with shooting/hunting priveleges or a hobknobber who makes donations to the big name museums, forget getting a permit.
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Old 24th March 2007, 06:59 PM   #13
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Just to clarify the bucket o' worms UK weapons collectors are facing:

From Wikipedia:

Parliamentary sovereignty, parliamentary supremacy, or legislative supremacy is a concept in constitutional law that applies to some parliamentary democracies. Under parliamentary sovereignty, a legislative body has absolute sovereignty, meaning it is supreme to all other government institutions (including any executive or judicial bodies as they may exist). Furthermore, it implies that the legislative body may change or repeal any prior legislative acts. Parliamentary sovereignty contrasts with notions of judicial review, where a court may overturn legislation deemed unconstitutional. Specific instances of parliamentary sovereignty exist in the United Kingdom and New Zealand.

So basically there are no checks and balances whatsoever on Parliament's legislative powers.

And for a larger overview of gun/weapons laws in the UK and how they reached the current sorry state of affairs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_po..._United_Kingdom
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Old 24th March 2007, 07:02 PM   #14
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Unfortunately, in the UK the media have been regulary reporting a so called 'knife culture', There is some substance to this as there have been a number of fatal stabbings ....usually young males are the perpetrators in gang related /street crime. But whether this is a newer phenomena or because it has been 'highlighted' by media attention making this seem to be a growing trend is not certain. Many previous fatal stabbings/knife attacks did not get so much 'media coverage'.
I also think that 9/11 has had a deep pychological effect on people. Although the planes were the destructive force used....knives were the simple tool that allowed the terrorists to 'take control' of the airliners.

As is widely known we had a knife amnesty in this country....which was hailed a success.....if you could call the handing in of weapons by law abiding citizens a triumph

Hopefully, including swords in this ban...is political manoeuvring...ban all bladed weapons and then 'negiotiate' some concessions....so we (the people) at least have a minor victory.

MP's seem blind to the fact that a 'sharpened' screwdriver is just as lethal as a knife, .....and would be 'legal' to carry
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Old 25th March 2007, 01:39 AM   #15
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Go figure, you eliminate all the guns and stabbings go up, I wonder if there will be a rise in poisonings once the swords get banned?

This type of thing makes me appreciate living in a nation where we have 'a rifle behind every blade of grass.'





I wish there was something us non-UK collectors could do to help.
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Old 25th March 2007, 02:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
.....you eliminate all the guns and stabbings go up...............

I wish there was something us non-UK collectors could do to help.


Import more guns........ I'm joking......honest.....

Last edited by katana : 25th March 2007 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 6th April 2007, 10:58 PM   #17
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Default Nanny state

Although the recent rise in knife culture is seriously worrying, living in west london, from what i hear in the news most attacks are using flick knives, butterfly knives etc....... no incidents including a 18th century Damascus Wootz tulwar with gold koftgari hilt and fullered blade!!!
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Old 8th April 2007, 03:22 PM   #18
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I read this post and immediately saw an RSS feed from the BBC about a knife-related murder. The scare is on! Once the media start pounding an "issue", it's tough to fight the hysteria. Good luck guys.
-d
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Old 11th April 2007, 04:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sikh_soldier
Although the recent rise in knife culture is seriously worrying, living in west london, from what i hear in the news most attacks are using flick knives, butterfly knives etc....... no incidents including a 18th century Damascus Wootz tulwar with gold koftgari hilt and fullered blade!!!


Actually, depending on which statistics you believe, kitchen knives are used in something like 70% of British knife crime. Screwdrivers and craft knives make up about another 20%. Swords are used, apparently, in less than 1% of British knife (edged weapon) crime.
Of course, since handguns were banned gun crime has increased by 40% (or more).
I'm in West London as well . Never been attacked with a knife or gun, but I have been attacked by glasses and bottles (in Soho both times).
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Old 16th April 2007, 03:26 AM   #20
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Boddington Bilge bottles have a particularly fine temper.
Unlike their users...
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Old 16th April 2007, 11:50 AM   #21
~Alaung_Hpaya~
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt

When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults.
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