Interesting Serrated Pulwar

archer · 13th February 2014, 04:45 PM

YES, I found my Pulwar. The bin price and the triangular dots eye lash marks were too compelling. It cleaned up readily with soap and water, later soapy and worn out 2000 grit paper and some Maas polish helped remove larger stains. Oddly, the blade has old very fine serrations?? There isn’t an indication the blade has ever been re sharpened. No tempering or well defined scarfing areas just a couple of questionable areas. A lot of bits slag or hard rust persists in the blade surface. The blade is Chameleon like going from grey patterned to flashy with a change of light direction. Maybe, stamped as another East India Company item?? It feels right and handles well a total weight 1 pound 14 ounces.

Jim McDougall · 13th February 2014, 06:29 PM

Very nice example Archer . These sabres are apparently in actuality versions of the tulwar which are notably attributed to Afghan preference, and with strong Persian influence . They are often considered to have certain similarities to Deccani swords, and have been discussed here often through the years.
The stamped 'sickle' marks or eyelash marks are commonly found on these blades on paluaor in this configuration and location, and are not in any way related to the EIC. Actually it would be interesting to discover more on where these were produced as the form and markings seem relatively consistant.

archer · 13th February 2014, 08:21 PM

Hi Jim, I was referring to the fifth photo and should have been clearer and marked the ricasso area that has a hard to see stamp that maybe E.I.C. Now added as the last photo. I wonder about the tiny serrations could these be used to slice the silk scarf of legend or just to rip flesh. I've learned that the three dot pattern or the eye lashes are reason enough to take a better look. Steve

Jim McDougall · 13th February 2014, 09:36 PM

Thanks Archer, I saw that but didn't realize that was what you were referring to. Im not sure what that stamp is but it is in an area of the blade where many North Indian blades are stamped with cartouches. As far as I have known it remains unclear whether arsenal or that type stamp.
The EIC as I understand did not mark blades, and I have never seen the balemark on blades It does however appear on firearms locks and bayonets though.

Matt Easton · 20th February 2014, 04:47 PM

Archer, I have a similar (though different shape) mark on an Indian blade of mine and am also curious to know if these are makers' stamps (which is what I believe them to be).

ariel · 22nd February 2014, 01:41 AM

Somehow I do not have a feeling it was purposefully serrated: looks like a ton of tiny nicks to me.

spiral · 22nd February 2014, 05:02 PM

I agree... Some old rotary style kitchen knife sharpeners, damage blades in that fairly regular manner.

spiral

archer · 22nd February 2014, 07:37 PM

Hi, Some poor photos but they should point out the teeth were not purely by accident and pose the question I had earlier WHY were they so laboriously
done? Spiro, I have an old restaurant steak knife sharpeners so, I can see what your thinking, but they are at least evenly spaced a few remaining spots are probably 25-30 teeth per inch and new by they trend to far courser. All the deep cuts show the same patina as the blade had before cleaning. Given the various sizes they likely were not done with a bastard file, likely done one cut at a time. Thanks for your input hope additional shots will cause more debate. Steve

Jim McDougall · 22nd February 2014, 08:09 PM

Steve, nicely noted and great images graphically illustrating. With this being the case, I would suggest perhaps deliberate attempt at imitating some of the auspiciously featured elements on certain Islamic swords such as the more notably serrated edges on the dual bladed Dhu'-faqar.

Often weapons have had deliberately placed features such as notching and piercing for reasons that elude conclusive answers. On Austrian cavalry swords for example, many 18th century examples had a deliberately placed notch near the tip of the blade.

While that example of course has nothing to do with this, it simply illustrates that many times deliberate features such as this have no apparent practical purpose, yet may have powerful temporal meaning symbolically. On the other hand, they could simply be poor imitations of such features on other known swords

spiral · 22nd February 2014, 10:31 PM

Interesting Archer...

From what you say & the new pics it does seem finer damage then the old kitchen knife sharpeners..

But to me the "serrations" still look like they would have a blunting effect, where serrations to improve cut have a sharpening effect. {sorry for stating the obvious there!}

The indentations on your blade appear essentialy horizontal to the cutting plane? essentially blunting it, not scallops steeply angled to improve true meat slicing ability?

As Jim implies there may be some deep esoteric/spiritual/ritual or religious reason for this, that I or we have no current understanding off, but in all honesty to my mind it would make it less of a practical weapon, than either the normal edge bevel or a properly angled scalloped edge.

spiral

archer · 24th February 2014, 05:24 PM

Thank you all for your thoughts. On a whim,holding a 8X10 sheet of paper in one hand and choking up on the blade in the other, I found with no effort or force the blade easily slices thru a sheet of paper, even though most of the blade is now less than sharp. Following thru I repeated same with another Tulwar blade I considered fairly sharp. It cut, but not as evenly or as well slipping away. Steak knife serrations remain factory sharp even though the points may dull from contact with a plate. What were the main reasons for the more exaggerated serrations we've seen recently on this forum, mauling tears, or to insure continued sharpness between the serrations in battle? Thanks again, Steve

13th February 2014, 04:45 PM	#1
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Interesting Serrated Pulwar YES, I found my Pulwar. The bin price and the triangular dots eye lash marks were too compelling. It cleaned up readily with soap and water, later soapy and worn out 2000 grit paper and some Maas polish helped remove larger stains. Oddly, the blade has old very fine serrations?? There isn’t an indication the blade has ever been re sharpened. No tempering or well defined scarfing areas just a couple of questionable areas. A lot of bits slag or hard rust persists in the blade surface. The blade is Chameleon like going from grey patterned to flashy with a change of light direction. Maybe, stamped as another East India Company item?? It feels right and handles well a total weight 1 pound 14 ounces. Attached Images Last edited by archer; 13th February 2014 at 08:07 PM. Reason: Add a photo

13th February 2014, 08:21 PM	#3
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	added photo reply Hi Jim, I was referring to the fifth photo and should have been clearer and marked the ricasso area that has a hard to see stamp that maybe E.I.C. Now added as the last photo. I wonder about the tiny serrations could these be used to slice the silk scarf of legend or just to rip flesh. I've learned that the three dot pattern or the eye lashes are reason enough to take a better look. Steve

22nd February 2014, 07:37 PM	#8
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Irregular Serrations Hi, Some poor photos but they should point out the teeth were not purely by accident and pose the question I had earlier WHY were they so laboriously done? Spiro, I have an old restaurant steak knife sharpeners so, I can see what your thinking, but they are at least evenly spaced a few remaining spots are probably 25-30 teeth per inch and new by they trend to far courser. All the deep cuts show the same patina as the blade had before cleaning. Given the various sizes they likely were not done with a bastard file, likely done one cut at a time. Thanks for your input hope additional shots will cause more debate. Steve Attached Images

24th February 2014, 05:24 PM	#11
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Sharpness Test Thank you all for your thoughts. On a whim,holding a 8X10 sheet of paper in one hand and choking up on the blade in the other, I found with no effort or force the blade easily slices thru a sheet of paper, even though most of the blade is now less than sharp. Following thru I repeated same with another Tulwar blade I considered fairly sharp. It cut, but not as evenly or as well slipping away. Steak knife serrations remain factory sharp even though the points may dull from contact with a plate. What were the main reasons for the more exaggerated serrations we've seen recently on this forum, mauling tears, or to insure continued sharpness between the serrations in battle? Thanks again, Steve

13th February 2014, 06:29 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Very nice example Archer . These sabres are apparently in actuality versions of the tulwar which are notably attributed to Afghan preference, and with strong Persian influence . They are often considered to have certain similarities to Deccani swords, and have been discussed here often through the years. The stamped 'sickle' marks or eyelash marks are commonly found on these blades on paluaor in this configuration and location, and are not in any way related to the EIC. Actually it would be interesting to discover more on where these were produced as the form and markings seem relatively consistant.

13th February 2014, 09:36 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Thanks Archer, I saw that but didn't realize that was what you were referring to. Im not sure what that stamp is but it is in an area of the blade where many North Indian blades are stamped with cartouches. As far as I have known it remains unclear whether arsenal or that type stamp. The EIC as I understand did not mark blades, and I have never seen the balemark on blades It does however appear on firearms locks and bayonets though.

20th February 2014, 04:47 PM	#5
Matt Easton Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, Great Britain. Posts: 53	Archer, I have a similar (though different shape) mark on an Indian blade of mine and am also curious to know if these are makers' stamps (which is what I believe them to be).

22nd February 2014, 01:41 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Somehow I do not have a feeling it was purposefully serrated: looks like a ton of tiny nicks to me.

22nd February 2014, 05:02 PM	#7
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I agree... Some old rotary style kitchen knife sharpeners, damage blades in that fairly regular manner. spiral

22nd February 2014, 08:09 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Steve, nicely noted and great images graphically illustrating. With this being the case, I would suggest perhaps deliberate attempt at imitating some of the auspiciously featured elements on certain Islamic swords such as the more notably serrated edges on the dual bladed Dhu'-faqar. Often weapons have had deliberately placed features such as notching and piercing for reasons that elude conclusive answers. On Austrian cavalry swords for example, many 18th century examples had a deliberately placed notch near the tip of the blade. While that example of course has nothing to do with this, it simply illustrates that many times deliberate features such as this have no apparent practical purpose, yet may have powerful temporal meaning symbolically. On the other hand, they could simply be poor imitations of such features on other known swords

22nd February 2014, 10:31 PM	#10
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Interesting Archer... From what you say & the new pics it does seem finer damage then the old kitchen knife sharpeners.. But to me the "serrations" still look like they would have a blunting effect, where serrations to improve cut have a sharpening effect. {sorry for stating the obvious there!} The indentations on your blade appear essentialy horizontal to the cutting plane? essentially blunting it, not scallops steeply angled to improve true meat slicing ability? As Jim implies there may be some deep esoteric/spiritual/ritual or religious reason for this, that I or we have no current understanding off, but in all honesty to my mind it would make it less of a practical weapon, than either the normal edge bevel or a properly angled scalloped edge. spiral