Native American copper weapons

Tim Simmons · 14th April 2006, 04:51 PM

Miskwabik, Metal of Ritual. Metallurgy in Precontact Eastern North America. The University Press Of Kentucky 2004.

My latest book, so impressed just had to post these two pictures from it {the only weapons in it}. So easy to read and well written. New writing without baggage. Pictures of metalwork and techniques I had not seen before. I think it is a must have for your book shelf. Got it from amazon.

Battara · 14th April 2006, 07:39 PM

Does this book also continue into the Mississippian period, including the Cherokee, Choctaw. etc (their decendants)? Lots of copper used with them.

Tim Simmons · 14th April 2006, 09:22 PM

Yes it does but I have only just started the book. It is now obvious that metal had been extensively work by many Native North Americans, so the stunning examples of steel weapons from the pacific north west should not be too much of a surprise.

Jim McDougall · 14th April 2006, 11:19 PM

Outstanding!! Thank you Tim for the heads up

Looks like an excellent book on a fascinating topic. Becoming more and more intrigued with Native American history and weaponry, and this really sounds promising.
Best regards,
Jim

Battara · 15th April 2006, 09:32 PM

Thank you Tim. I'm also of Cherokee descent and make jewelry based on early Mississippian Cherokee designs (not just Filipino/Moro restorations). The more pictures and research the merrier.

Jim McDougall · 16th April 2006, 04:20 AM

Finally have my copy of the book on the way, and typically impatient started reviewing other resources concerning Native American metalwork, especially copper, in some other resources. While obviously only a cursory look at the topic, I have always simply presumed that Native American tribes were not particularly involved in working metal, especially not smelting or forging obviously. My perception has been of fascination by this virtually paleolithic civilization persisting until the arrival of Europeans and ongoing colonization and trade.

According to "Native American Weapons" (Colin F.Taylor, 2001,London) this is essentially true, and the author notes that stone working in flint by the typical methods of flaking and pecking did persist in the gradual style of working copper nuggets found naturally in post-glacial debris in regions holding these deposits. It is noted the key regions for this were in the Great Lakes, southward to the Mississippi Valley, and that by the time of the arrival of the Europeans around 1600, copper was already well in use. The long, narrow blades on knives and dagger blades were, as the earlier stone items, convex in section and reflected similar working to the stone examples. It seems that in many cases, heating the raw material being worked allowed a sharper edge to be honed with sharpening stone.

The author also mentions that many early writers note the copper weapons were imbued with exceptional powers, and while many tribes clearly used the metal for such magically charged purpose, there was also many who thought the metal so sacred, no practical use whatsoever was made of it, yet it was considered valuable in itself.

In other reading, it does seem that most Native American 'industry' in weapon making with metal came later, and with the constant flow of trade weapons and materials. I am looking forward to this book in hopes of learning more on how much actual metalwork in varying degree may have taken place, and especially more in copper in this cultural sphere.

Battara, I have found the study of the Cherokee especially interesting and it seems ever increasing in dimension as an incredibly important people among Native Americans. Much of my study has been prompted by my brother in law, whose mother was full blooded Cherokee.

All best regards,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 16th April 2006, 10:48 AM

I have started on the chapter, Copper; Its Ceremonial Role. I will go back to the chapter on smelting. Interesting hypothesis on the spread of use and therefore technical knowledge of copper by prophets and disciples of new rituals.

Jim McDougall · 16th April 2006, 04:13 PM

Sounds really fascinating Tim! I think the spiritual/ magical properties assigned to copper by tribal peoples is most interesting and it is intriguing to consider that while it developed practically in crafting tools and weapons, in some cases it remained sacred unworked. I know that the Northwest tribes had distinct beliefs concerning copper, and were known for its use ceremonially in material art and weapons.
Cant wait for my copy to get here!!

All the best,
Jim

14th April 2006, 04:51 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Native American copper weapons Miskwabik, Metal of Ritual. Metallurgy in Precontact Eastern North America. The University Press Of Kentucky 2004. My latest book, so impressed just had to post these two pictures from it {the only weapons in it}. So easy to read and well written. New writing without baggage. Pictures of metalwork and techniques I had not seen before. I think it is a must have for your book shelf. Got it from amazon. Attached Images

14th April 2006, 07:39 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Does this book also continue into the Mississippian period, including the Cherokee, Choctaw. etc (their decendants)? Lots of copper used with them.

14th April 2006, 09:22 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Yes it does but I have only just started the book. It is now obvious that metal had been extensively work by many Native North Americans, so the stunning examples of steel weapons from the pacific north west should not be too much of a surprise.

14th April 2006, 11:19 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,764	Outstanding!! Thank you Tim for the heads up Looks like an excellent book on a fascinating topic. Becoming more and more intrigued with Native American history and weaponry, and this really sounds promising. Best regards, Jim

15th April 2006, 09:32 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Thank you Tim. I'm also of Cherokee descent and make jewelry based on early Mississippian Cherokee designs (not just Filipino/Moro restorations). The more pictures and research the merrier.

16th April 2006, 04:20 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,764	Finally have my copy of the book on the way, and typically impatient started reviewing other resources concerning Native American metalwork, especially copper, in some other resources. While obviously only a cursory look at the topic, I have always simply presumed that Native American tribes were not particularly involved in working metal, especially not smelting or forging obviously. My perception has been of fascination by this virtually paleolithic civilization persisting until the arrival of Europeans and ongoing colonization and trade. According to "Native American Weapons" (Colin F.Taylor, 2001,London) this is essentially true, and the author notes that stone working in flint by the typical methods of flaking and pecking did persist in the gradual style of working copper nuggets found naturally in post-glacial debris in regions holding these deposits. It is noted the key regions for this were in the Great Lakes, southward to the Mississippi Valley, and that by the time of the arrival of the Europeans around 1600, copper was already well in use. The long, narrow blades on knives and dagger blades were, as the earlier stone items, convex in section and reflected similar working to the stone examples. It seems that in many cases, heating the raw material being worked allowed a sharper edge to be honed with sharpening stone. The author also mentions that many early writers note the copper weapons were imbued with exceptional powers, and while many tribes clearly used the metal for such magically charged purpose, there was also many who thought the metal so sacred, no practical use whatsoever was made of it, yet it was considered valuable in itself. In other reading, it does seem that most Native American 'industry' in weapon making with metal came later, and with the constant flow of trade weapons and materials. I am looking forward to this book in hopes of learning more on how much actual metalwork in varying degree may have taken place, and especially more in copper in this cultural sphere. Battara, I have found the study of the Cherokee especially interesting and it seems ever increasing in dimension as an incredibly important people among Native Americans. Much of my study has been prompted by my brother in law, whose mother was full blooded Cherokee. All best regards, Jim

16th April 2006, 10:48 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	I have started on the chapter, Copper; Its Ceremonial Role. I will go back to the chapter on smelting. Interesting hypothesis on the spread of use and therefore technical knowledge of copper by prophets and disciples of new rituals.

16th April 2006, 04:13 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,764	Sounds really fascinating Tim! I think the spiritual/ magical properties assigned to copper by tribal peoples is most interesting and it is intriguing to consider that while it developed practically in crafting tools and weapons, in some cases it remained sacred unworked. I know that the Northwest tribes had distinct beliefs concerning copper, and were known for its use ceremonially in material art and weapons. Cant wait for my copy to get here!! All the best, Jim