Hussar saber

FRANCOIS · 28th August 2022, 01:46 PM

Hello,
I have this 18th hussar saber. It's for me a austro hungarian saber but i'd like to specify his origin.
There's no mark except CA.

fernando · 28th August 2022, 05:48 PM

Welcome to the forum, François

.
Let us see what the members think of your nice saber.

FRANCOIS · 28th August 2022, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Welcome to the forum, François

.
Let us see what the members think of your nice saber.

Thanks Fernando

I have others pictures

What is the origine of this saber, I don''t know the mark CA
Thanks in advance

Radboud · 28th August 2022, 09:50 PM

Neat looking sword and not my area of familiarity so make of my observations what you will, but there are a couple of points of concern for me:

1. Looking at how the fullers continue to the tip, it looks like the blade might have been shortened.
2. Your third photo shows what looks like a seam from a mould on the langet; on an original, you'd expect this to have been polished away.
3. The Turks' head engraving feels 'flat'. Difficult to describe, but the originals have more 'spark' to them.
4. The clean, deep CA stamp doesn't match with the late 18th Century style engraved Turks' head decoration.

Victrix · 29th August 2022, 10:33 AM

Interesting looking sword. It seems to be a combination of styles. The lion pommel, wired grip, and rounded langets is reminiscent of the Austro-Hungarian Prima Plana infantry sabres. The forward curved cross guards are reminiscent of 17thC. The stirrup shaped knuckle guard is reminiscent of 18thC sabre. The scabbard is curiously flat in shape. The brass details don’t look naturally aged. There’s no indentation at the mouth to fit the langets of the sword. The only ring to fasten the scabbard is at the mouth so presumably it’s supposed to be worn from a belt in infantry fashion?

FRANCOIS · 29th August 2022, 11:42 AM

it's a cavalry saber, the blade is long and wide;but it's the first time I see this suspension system (except for infantry of course), maybe a request from its owner. the guard is not common. I do not know how to locate and date this saber

Jim McDougall · 29th August 2022, 02:50 PM

I agree with Victrix, this saber is an anomaly in its fusion of various element styles, as well as unusual scabbard in its suspension, which should be the usual rings. These were usual worn slung from the side, which was of course the purpose of the drag on the scabbard chape as these were often low slung when dismounted.

The scrolled quillon terminals on the guard are most unusual as actually there would only be one, while the knuckle guard extended into the cross guard and needed no such fixture at the base. This vestigial terminal is most odd.

The sword overall does not correspond to anything I can find in references on Austro-Hungarian swords, but I agree, there seems in inclination toward that influence.

The blade too is unusual in the channels and the fuller extending to the point, recalling in a sense the blades with heavier distal features often including yelman to add weight and impetus to slashing cuts.
However, the unusually crisp CA poincon is not like anything I have seen on blade markings of 18th c. nor are the shape of the letters.

The etched markings on the blade are nicely fashioned resembling the 'oriental occult' style motif often applied to French blades of 'caissagnard decoration' which seem to have been applied in Nantes locations from mid to latter 18th c. Some this style decoration seems used in other countries as well in similar manner, including of course Eastern Europe.

Which brings to mind that there were elements of cavalry in the French army from Austro-Hungarian origin, which seem to have evolved perhaps from the 'pandour' forces which created notable interest to the French.
Here I would note that the unusual fluted langet resembles certain small sword styling of French origin in the late 18th c. which was seen on the heavier officers versions of these.

As officers of course commissioned their own swords and had them privately made by cutlers and outfitters, it does not seem surprising that these kinds of unusually appointed swords would exist. With that in mind, and that officers often were in the service of other countries, the influences of any number of sources might be at hand.

Whatever the case, an extremely attractive saber!

28th August 2022, 01:46 PM	#1
FRANCOIS Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10	Hussar saber Hello, I have this 18th hussar saber. It's for me a austro hungarian saber but i'd like to specify his origin. There's no mark except CA. Attached Images

28th August 2022, 05:48 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Welcome to the forum, François . Let us see what the members think of your nice saber.

28th August 2022, 09:50 PM	#4
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 224	Neat looking sword and not my area of familiarity so make of my observations what you will, but there are a couple of points of concern for me: 1. Looking at how the fullers continue to the tip, it looks like the blade might have been shortened. 2. Your third photo shows what looks like a seam from a mould on the langet; on an original, you'd expect this to have been polished away. 3. The Turks' head engraving feels 'flat'. Difficult to describe, but the originals have more 'spark' to them. 4. The clean, deep CA stamp doesn't match with the late 18th Century style engraved Turks' head decoration.

29th August 2022, 10:33 AM	#5
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 679	Interesting looking sword. It seems to be a combination of styles. The lion pommel, wired grip, and rounded langets is reminiscent of the Austro-Hungarian Prima Plana infantry sabres. The forward curved cross guards are reminiscent of 17thC. The stirrup shaped knuckle guard is reminiscent of 18thC sabre. The scabbard is curiously flat in shape. The brass details don’t look naturally aged. There’s no indentation at the mouth to fit the langets of the sword. The only ring to fasten the scabbard is at the mouth so presumably it’s supposed to be worn from a belt in infantry fashion?

29th August 2022, 11:42 AM	#6
FRANCOIS Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10	it's a cavalry saber, the blade is long and wide;but it's the first time I see this suspension system (except for infantry of course), maybe a request from its owner. the guard is not common. I do not know how to locate and date this saber

29th August 2022, 02:50 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,746	I agree with Victrix, this saber is an anomaly in its fusion of various element styles, as well as unusual scabbard in its suspension, which should be the usual rings. These were usual worn slung from the side, which was of course the purpose of the drag on the scabbard chape as these were often low slung when dismounted. The scrolled quillon terminals on the guard are most unusual as actually there would only be one, while the knuckle guard extended into the cross guard and needed no such fixture at the base. This vestigial terminal is most odd. The sword overall does not correspond to anything I can find in references on Austro-Hungarian swords, but I agree, there seems in inclination toward that influence. The blade too is unusual in the channels and the fuller extending to the point, recalling in a sense the blades with heavier distal features often including yelman to add weight and impetus to slashing cuts. However, the unusually crisp CA poincon is not like anything I have seen on blade markings of 18th c. nor are the shape of the letters. The etched markings on the blade are nicely fashioned resembling the 'oriental occult' style motif often applied to French blades of 'caissagnard decoration' which seem to have been applied in Nantes locations from mid to latter 18th c. Some this style decoration seems used in other countries as well in similar manner, including of course Eastern Europe. Which brings to mind that there were elements of cavalry in the French army from Austro-Hungarian origin, which seem to have evolved perhaps from the 'pandour' forces which created notable interest to the French. Here I would note that the unusual fluted langet resembles certain small sword styling of French origin in the late 18th c. which was seen on the heavier officers versions of these. As officers of course commissioned their own swords and had them privately made by cutlers and outfitters, it does not seem surprising that these kinds of unusually appointed swords would exist. With that in mind, and that officers often were in the service of other countries, the influences of any number of sources might be at hand. Whatever the case, an extremely attractive saber!