yataghan with anchor(?) for translation

Valjhun · 17th November 2011, 07:47 PM

Hi guys,

My friend aquired this yatagan. It appears that it has an anchor engraved. Is that a later additon or is it a symbol with different meaning?

It has also an inscription. It would be possible to translate it?

Sorry for the low quality pics, but I had to make it quickly on the spot. Many thanks in advance!

Valjhun · 17th November 2011, 07:59 PM

inscription

Dom · 17th November 2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

inscription

Hi
it's not Arabic language ... only part be translated
it's what is written inside the tughra
"SANA 119" either "year(1)119" (± 1707 Gregorian)

à +

Dom

Jim McDougall · 18th November 2011, 03:56 PM

In viewing the most interesting inscriptions on this yataghan, and particularly the 'anchor' symbol, I am finding far more questions than answers. It would appear to me that the anchor is contemporary to the inscription, and of course the compelling indication is that this suggests maritime association.

As Dom has noted as can be seen, the inscription is not in Arabic, and I am wondering if this might be in either Balkan, Albanian or Greek alphabets. I am far from any linguistic skills so that is obviously a guess. The 'tughra' does not appear to be entirely that either, though the symbol is loosely in the style of these sultanate symbols. The hancer and beyze are present, but if enclosed is a date, that seems unusual as typically it is the sultans name.

When first seeing the anchor my thoughts were of the 'mariners cross' or St. Clements cross, which are of course Christian symbols, and wondered why would that be present in context with a 'tughra' in an Ottoman weapon. I thought perhaps this may be a Balkan weapon, the script of one of the alphabets among these regions and the St. Clements cross an Orthodox symbol with a tughra style element in the grouping.
Pure speculation clearly, but hopefully thoughts that might bring forward better suggestions from our knowledgeable membership more familiar with these areas.

Attached is the martyrdom of St. Clement in 102AD, in which he was tied to an anchor and drowned in the Black Sea. As can be seen the similarity in the early form anchor. It seems that anchors in these forms have been used as makers marks and talismanic symbols on European blades, but have not found examples which are not in cross form and open like this.

All best regards,
Jim

Zifir · 19th November 2011, 07:07 PM

Hi Jim,
I think Dom meant the language is not Arabic although the script is. I can clearly make the tuğra out, it is in the usual shape of sahib (the owner), but I am not sure what is written inside, at first I tend to read it as Dom did, but then there is a few characters which does not fit. I am at loss for the rest of the inscription, since some parts of it are erased and the characters are somehow different than the ones I used to read, so I cannot be sure about the language. Also the beginning of the inscription seems to be lost under the remade handle if I don't see it wrong from the picture.

Jim McDougall · 20th November 2011, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zifir

Hi Jim,
I think Dom meant the language is not Arabic although the script is. I can clearly make the tuğra out, it is in the usual shape of sahib (the owner), but I am not sure what is written inside, at first I tend to read it as Dom did, but then there is a few characters which does not fit. I am at loss for the rest of the inscription, since some parts of it are erased and the characters are somehow different than the ones I used to read, so I cannot be sure about the language. Also the beginning of the inscription seems to be lost under the remade handle if I don't see it wrong from the picture.

Thank you Zifir for explaining that. I could not make out the images well enough, but they seemed much bolder in character than I usually perceive Arabic script and I was expecting a different alphabet. The tughra does seem of course better placed with Arabic script, but I am puzzled by the anchor, of course as a symbol it is quite universal I suppose.
Looking forward to further on the translation and it more precise date is possible.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th November 2011, 06:08 PM

Salaams all, Perhaps the anchor is a moon and sun... Or a full moon and a new moon. Regards Ibrahiim

Rick · 24th November 2011, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams all, Perhaps the anchor is a moon and sun... Or a full moon and a new moon. Regards Ibrahiim

Good observation; it is a poor anchor that has no stock, for it will not bite the bottom of the sea .

Not an anchor .

17th November 2011, 07:47 PM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	yataghan with anchor(?) for translation Hi guys, My friend aquired this yatagan. It appears that it has an anchor engraved. Is that a later additon or is it a symbol with different meaning? It has also an inscription. It would be possible to translate it? Sorry for the low quality pics, but I had to make it quickly on the spot. Many thanks in advance! Attached Images

17th November 2011, 07:59 PM	#2
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	inscription Attached Images

18th November 2011, 03:56 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,747	In viewing the most interesting inscriptions on this yataghan, and particularly the 'anchor' symbol, I am finding far more questions than answers. It would appear to me that the anchor is contemporary to the inscription, and of course the compelling indication is that this suggests maritime association. As Dom has noted as can be seen, the inscription is not in Arabic, and I am wondering if this might be in either Balkan, Albanian or Greek alphabets. I am far from any linguistic skills so that is obviously a guess. The 'tughra' does not appear to be entirely that either, though the symbol is loosely in the style of these sultanate symbols. The hancer and beyze are present, but if enclosed is a date, that seems unusual as typically it is the sultans name. When first seeing the anchor my thoughts were of the 'mariners cross' or St. Clements cross, which are of course Christian symbols, and wondered why would that be present in context with a 'tughra' in an Ottoman weapon. I thought perhaps this may be a Balkan weapon, the script of one of the alphabets among these regions and the St. Clements cross an Orthodox symbol with a tughra style element in the grouping. Pure speculation clearly, but hopefully thoughts that might bring forward better suggestions from our knowledgeable membership more familiar with these areas. Attached is the martyrdom of St. Clement in 102AD, in which he was tied to an anchor and drowned in the Black Sea. As can be seen the similarity in the early form anchor. It seems that anchors in these forms have been used as makers marks and talismanic symbols on European blades, but have not found examples which are not in cross form and open like this. All best regards, Jim

19th November 2011, 07:07 PM	#5
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Hi Jim, I think Dom meant the language is not Arabic although the script is. I can clearly make the tuğra out, it is in the usual shape of sahib (the owner), but I am not sure what is written inside, at first I tend to read it as Dom did, but then there is a few characters which does not fit. I am at loss for the rest of the inscription, since some parts of it are erased and the characters are somehow different than the ones I used to read, so I cannot be sure about the language. Also the beginning of the inscription seems to be lost under the remade handle if I don't see it wrong from the picture.

24th November 2011, 06:08 PM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams all, Perhaps the anchor is a moon and sun... Or a full moon and a new moon. Regards Ibrahiim