Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 17th May 2017, 10:42 AM   #1
Kmaddock
Member
 
Kmaddock's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 532
Default Khukuri type knife scabard and small knives

Hi
I am looking for information on the following
It looks like a khukuri scabbard of sorts
No main knife but the two knives and the pouch were present
The small knives are 7 inches long and the metal seems of good quality
The handles are ceramic like they feel like marble or stone, it is shiny to look at and quiet resilient.
Would anyone be able to tell me more wrt origin or anything at all really.
Cheers
Ken
Attached Images
     
Kmaddock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2017, 09:28 PM   #2
David R
Member
 
David R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,048
Default

I think you have a very old style Kukri scabbard which I downright envy! The two auxiliary knives karda and chakma probably have hilts of shell, as in shellfish shell, more often seen on Philippine and Indonesian items. What a pity the Kukri is gone.
David R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2017, 10:22 PM   #3
Kmaddock
Member
 
Kmaddock's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 532
Default

Hi David,
Yes pity the main knife is gone, it would have been a lovely set alright.
The material of the handles is not chalkey like stone or shells I know.
If you tried to scratch with your teeth it just will not scratch without damaging teeth. I assume it is silver trim on the metal as it has that smell!
Cheers
Kmaddock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2017, 07:46 AM   #4
Royston
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Poole England
Posts: 441
Default

That must have been very special in its day.
Are you sure that the hilts of the Karda and Chakmak are shell and not some form of ivory ?

Regards
Roy
Royston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2017, 07:51 AM   #5
Kmaddock
Member
 
Kmaddock's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 532
Default

Hi Roy,
I tried handle with a hot needle and it is impervious
Handles are v cold to the touch and look like they would shatter if you hit off the ground. Where the tang comes through the ends there is some metal showing in the shape of a c.
The material could be tooth but in all honesty it does not look organic.
I have attached more images and also forgot to mention there is some decoration on the blades, which I have photographed.

David I meant to ask you what sort of age would you put on this part set?.
Cheers
Ken
Attached Images
     

Last edited by Kmaddock; 18th May 2017 at 09:11 AM.
Kmaddock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2017, 11:52 AM   #6
David R
Member
 
David R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,048
Default

Have look here for examples of tridacna shell handles.


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=tridacna
David R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2017, 12:04 PM   #7
Kmaddock
Member
 
Kmaddock's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 532
Default

Thanks David,
Looks v similar alright, I reckon you have it.
Cheers,
Ken
Kmaddock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 08:26 PM   #8
Miguel
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 584
Default

Hello Ken, I think you have something quite special there and agree with David in that its an old design. I have never seen companion knives of that design before but on searching online I found a kukri with companion kives having the same blade form as yours, I found it together with the knife, scabbard and pouch on Pinterest who attributed it to the Metropolitan Museum. The age given was 18th/19th century.
Thanks for sharing.
Miguel
Miguel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2017, 12:04 AM   #9
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,135
Default

Just to play devil's advocate, could these hilts also be ivory?
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2017, 09:26 AM   #10
Kmaddock
Member
 
Kmaddock's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 532
Default

Hi
I do not think they are ivory
V v cold ceramic feel to them
Looking at images they David R put up I think they are tridacna alright
Thanks
Ken
Kmaddock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2017, 03:16 AM   #11
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,135
Default

Feeling the material is good. Helps make the determination better.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2017, 11:49 AM   #12
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default

These are very nice...some what lacking in condition but given the rarity of the knives, hilt material and the design of the sheath, I think they could be late 18th century.

The hilts are shell, however, they are not tridacna.
Tridacna are giant clam shells, these clearly have the spiralling rings of a conch shell.

Gavin
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2017, 12:15 PM   #13
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,213
Thumbs up

Gavin, you're spot on with the smaller hilt - apparently crafted from the center of a large marine conch shell (as you know, these did got traded into the Himalayas). The larger hilt seems quite massive - a close-up of the tip may help...

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2017, 12:56 PM   #14
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Gavin, you're spot on with the smaller hilt - apparently crafted from the center of a large marine conch shell (as you know, these did got traded into the Himalayas). The larger hilt seems quite massive - a close-up of the tip may help...

Regards,
Kai
Thanks Kai,

throw your eye over the first post, third image...clear spiral to me.

Gavin
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2017, 03:44 PM   #15
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,145
Default

just for interest, here is a modern khukuri from a nepali mfg. based on the older ones before they had a proper cho (aka kaudi or kauri). and an older quite ornate khukuri with similar tools.

normally the two tools are a karda, a small sharpened utility knife and the other an unsharpened but similar sized and shaped one, the chakma(k) with a thick hardened edge used to 'steel' a dinged edge back to shape or with a flint, to start a fire.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by kronckew; 11th June 2017 at 04:23 PM.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2017, 05:16 PM   #16
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,213
Lightbulb

Hello Gavin,

Quote:
throw your eye over the first post, third image...clear spiral to me
Yes, it seems so but the 4th pic (close-up) is less convincing. The top partly visible in the 3rd pic does indeed suggest the same structure though...

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.