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Old 29th June 2015, 06:36 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluErf
I meant good enough to wear around in the kampung, but not fine enough for the higher social strata. Sorry, this sounds politically incorrect, but that's the way art is. The centre of wealth and political power breeds high excellence in artistic expression which form the pinnacles of art that ordinary folks copy, emulate and aspire to own/consume. Like all facsimiles, definition is lost in the process.


If this is the case, this old one will not make it to higher social strata as well...

My guess is that it depends on which angle you prefer to see it. Keris as a weapon or Keris as a status symbol...
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Old 29th June 2015, 07:20 AM   #62
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Yes, indeed.

To be even more provocative, some kerises are not good enough for the social higher strata, and at the same time, they make poor weapons too. So what do we make of these kerises?

"Old" not equals "good" or "bad"
"New" not equals "bad" or "good"
Likewise for "simple" and "complex"

But I think we have digressed a bit frm the original point I wanted to make, but I suspect was not conveyed adequately - that a "kampung" quality hilt does not adhere very strictly to archetypal forms. You get all sorts of variations and unusual features. From my experience, it is usually a futile exercise trying to classify these examples definitively. Sometimes, they are just amalgamations of influences and even the whims and fancies of the maker.

So this is to be read in relation to your question/statement - this looks like a tajong, but is actually a coteng.

The first rule of collecting is to collect what you like. Happy learning about the keris, and then collecting it!
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Old 29th June 2015, 11:22 AM   #63
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Another of ɱყ friend's Coteng
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Old 29th June 2015, 11:32 AM   #64
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Staying in Thailand has allowed me to build a small network and I have managed to get to know more Keris collectors
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Old 29th June 2015, 11:52 AM   #65
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Another collector's Keris
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Old 29th June 2015, 12:20 PM   #66
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Quote:
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Another of ɱყ friend's Coteng


Excellent pieces these 3! Tks for sharing. It's difficult to see pieces of these calibre.
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Old 29th June 2015, 12:23 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxbliss888
Another collector's Keris


These two are very good too. The sheath forms are top notch.
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Old 29th June 2015, 12:53 PM   #68
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I have a piece in my collection which has baffled me for a while. It has features of a tajong, like elaborate crown, beard, and a more abstract anthropomorphic form. But instead of a regular tajong sheath, it was affixed to a coteng style sheath which was larger than usual. The blade is what my group of collectors here in Sg refer to as "Chenok" style, after the place the form is said to originate from.

Can your collector friends share their opinion on the origin of this keris pls? Tks
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Last edited by BluErf : 29th June 2015 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 29th June 2015, 12:59 PM   #69
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More pics, including one for comparison with other more regular coteng kerises.
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Old 29th June 2015, 01:59 PM   #70
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ŋıƈɛ ƈơƖƖɛƈɬıơŋ!

ʂųཞɛ! ῳıƖƖ check with them during our weekend gathering...
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Old 30th June 2015, 08:58 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluErf
I have a piece in my collection which has baffled me for a while. It has features of a tajong, like elaborate crown, beard, and a more abstract anthropomorphic form. But instead of a regular tajong sheath, it was affixed to a coteng style sheath which was larger than usual. The blade is what my group of collectors here in Sg refer to as "Chenok" style, after the place the form is said to originate from.

Can your collector friends share their opinion on the origin of this keris pls? Tks


Hi! I have shown the photo to a senior Keris collector and in his opinion, he feels that the the Hulu (handle) should be a Coteng one for the sheath. There are bigger Sheath Coteng.

Please see example..
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Old 30th June 2015, 08:59 AM   #72
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Here is another example of Coteng Shield
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Old 30th June 2015, 09:04 AM   #73
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Default Coteng versus Tajong

The Coteng has various sizes and the rare one is as long as the Tajong..
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Old 30th June 2015, 09:09 AM   #74
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This is another collector collection. Good example to see the different Coteng with different length and sizes.
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Old 2nd July 2015, 09:46 AM   #75
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Smile Coteng cleaning

This Coteng has been cleaned
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Old 2nd July 2015, 02:00 PM   #76
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Default Book on Keris

A gift from my Thai friend..
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Old 2nd July 2015, 02:02 PM   #77
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Default New Coteng

ɬɧıʂ ıʂ another Coteng from my Thai Friend..
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Old 2nd July 2015, 02:04 PM   #78
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Small gathering... ɧơ℘ɛ ყơu like it..
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Old 4th July 2015, 08:31 AM   #79
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Thanks! Can I clarify whether you meant the hilt was not correct for the sheath, or that the hilt is considered a coteng hilt?
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Old 4th July 2015, 08:33 AM   #80
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With so many specimens shown in this thread, it should go down as the Coteng thread to come to for a visual feast. Thanks for sharing them.
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Old 4th July 2015, 08:53 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluErf
Thanks! Can I clarify whether you meant the hilt was not correct for the sheath, or that the hilt is considered a coteng hilt?


Hi!

According to some serious collectors, as the hilt is made of wood, some tends to get damage over time and often got replaced. In this instance, it can be either be a situation where the Coteng hilt has been replaced with a Tajong. Alternatively, it may be a situation where a Tajong Keris has been matched with a Coteng shield. The suggestion from the collectors are either One quick way is to change the hilt or shield.

Cheers
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Old 5th July 2015, 11:29 AM   #82
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Ok, thanks for the clarification!

Another piece I'd like to ask about - this coteng came back from Europe. The sheath form is different frm most coteng we see. I associate this sheath form as an older form closer to the original coastal Javanese keris forms from which I think the coteng evolved. What does your collector friends think?
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Old 5th July 2015, 04:05 PM   #83
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Yes, it's the old Coteng shield...with the influence Javanese art cirebon.
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Old 5th July 2015, 04:08 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxbliss888
Yes, it's the old Coteng shield...with the influence Javanese art cirebon.



Please see below comparison
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Old 5th July 2015, 06:43 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxbliss888
Please see below comparison


Hello Max,

the scabbard on the right isn't a Cirebon one but a Coteng scabbard IMHO. Can you post a photo of both from the other side?

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 6th July 2015, 11:08 AM   #86
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Hi!

I am not saying that it's a Cirebon one but with Javanese influences..
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Old 6th July 2015, 03:54 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxbliss888
Hi!

I am not saying that it's a Cirebon one but with Javanese influences..


Hi, so it has been just a missunderstanding, soory!
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Old 7th July 2015, 02:24 PM   #88
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No worries..
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Old 8th July 2015, 01:32 PM   #89
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Coteng
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Old 10th July 2015, 12:50 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxbliss888
Yes, it's the old Coteng shield...with the influence Javanese art cirebon.


Thanks Francis, for affirming my thinking. The hilt on this coteng has sone really sublime carvings. The form is also extra "rounded". Very pleasing piece.
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