Persian(?) blade and incongruent hilt

ariel · 2nd July 2020, 08:21 PM

I am with RSWORD: khanjar, late Qajar, replaced handle, original scabbard.
My only hesitation: some pics of the blade are suspicious for being wootz-y.
The blade is patinated and the issue can be resolved only by polishing and etching at least a decent size window.
If it is wootz, I would change my guess to "potentially Zand-eariler Qajar".

mariusgmioc · 2nd July 2020, 08:24 PM

Indian!

Both, blade and hilt. 20th century.

I have yet to see a Persian khanjar with double concave fullers and reinforced tip!

Battara · 3rd July 2020, 12:13 AM

Indian khanjars do not have a forte and scabbard chiseled like this. I'm with RSword on this one entirely.

Better pictures would be more helpful though.

shayde78 · 5th July 2020, 12:24 AM

Thank you everyone for the comments so far!
I'm glad to see there isn't a clear consensus as I enjoy the opportunity to learn from the knowledgeable back and forth.
Send like the sum of opinions is leaning towards Persian, late 19th, early 20th. Marius' thought has merit. I have seen examples with curved fullers being attributed to the 1800s. However, the thickened tip doesn't seem particularly useful if the knife is used in a clawing, slashing manner (like a karambet). However, this is not an area of expertise, and others may provide examples that challenge this. I know thickened tips are kind of pervasive on weapons from this region.
As for the suggestion of wootz, I thought the same thing viewing the auction photographs based on the pattern of oxidation. Upon close look, I don't think it is, but I may polish a section for a better view.

Once again, thank you, and I look forward to seeing additional thoughts.

mariusgmioc · 5th July 2020, 08:05 AM

Persian, 18th century and not wootz?!

I may agree with the Persian attribution but definitely not 18th century.

5th July 2020, 12:24 AM	#4
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 443	Thank you everyone for the comments so far! I'm glad to see there isn't a clear consensus as I enjoy the opportunity to learn from the knowledgeable back and forth. Send like the sum of opinions is leaning towards Persian, late 19th, early 20th. Marius' thought has merit. I have seen examples with curved fullers being attributed to the 1800s. However, the thickened tip doesn't seem particularly useful if the knife is used in a clawing, slashing manner (like a karambet). However, this is not an area of expertise, and others may provide examples that challenge this. I know thickened tips are kind of pervasive on weapons from this region. As for the suggestion of wootz, I thought the same thing viewing the auction photographs based on the pattern of oxidation. Upon close look, I don't think it is, but I may polish a section for a better view. Once again, thank you, and I look forward to seeing additional thoughts. Last edited by shayde78; 5th July 2020 at 12:50 AM.

5th July 2020, 08:05 AM	#5
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,882	Persian, 18th century and not wootz?! I may agree with the Persian attribution but definitely not 18th century. Attached Images Last edited by mariusgmioc; 5th July 2020 at 06:49 PM.

2nd July 2020, 08:21 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am with RSWORD: khanjar, late Qajar, replaced handle, original scabbard. My only hesitation: some pics of the blade are suspicious for being wootz-y. The blade is patinated and the issue can be resolved only by polishing and etching at least a decent size window. If it is wootz, I would change my guess to "potentially Zand-eariler Qajar".

2nd July 2020, 08:24 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,882	Indian! Both, blade and hilt. 20th century. I have yet to see a Persian khanjar with double concave fullers and reinforced tip!

3rd July 2020, 12:13 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Indian khanjars do not have a forte and scabbard chiseled like this. I'm with RSword on this one entirely. Better pictures would be more helpful though.