Interesting belt

RSWORD · 1st September 2015, 12:34 PM

Looking for some thoughts as to origins of this interesting belt. Will provide some additional background after some discussion.

kahnjar1 · 4th September 2015, 08:58 PM

Hi Rick,
A really interesting belt if I may say so. Just a guess, but maybe Japanese due to the many Lotus shaped bits and emblems.............
Possibly the slots on the two outer "joiners" could be used for hanging something?
Stu

David R · 5th September 2015, 08:46 AM

I would suggest North India heading towards Afghanistan Tibet and Central Asia. I am going by the hanger slots which are very Central Asian and the armoured-belt theme which you also see in Tibet and Bhutan. The studs remind me of some on an Afghan game pouch I once had. Buckles are not really common in the traditional Japanese repertoire and lotus is a decorative element used all through the east.
Overall my money would be on Tibet or Bhutan for the origin of this piece.
This is a very nice piece, thank you for sharing.

Dave

RSWORD · 5th September 2015, 07:31 PM

Thanks guys for the responses so far. The background I was holding a bit pending some discussion was the oral provenance of this item. The person I picked this up from stated he purchased this belt, along with a few other items I ended up with, from a Tibetan monestary. It does not follow any known example of Tibetan belt work and I tend to agree with the suggestion it could be from surrounding regions. I think India is a real possibility. In the book Tibetan arms and armour you see Tibetan monestaries with many tulwars mounted on the walls. Certainly they have picked up over the centuries many arms from neighboring countries. The fact it was found in Tibet in the 1970's adds to the story a bit but one can certainly understand how it ended up there.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th September 2015, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Thanks guys for the responses so far. The background I was holding a bit pending some discussion was the oral provenance of this item. The person I picked this up from stated he purchased this belt, along with a few other items I ended up with, from a Tibetan monestary. It does not follow any known example of Tibetan belt work and I tend to agree with the suggestion it could be from surrounding regions. I think India is a real possibility. In the book Tibetan arms and armour you see Tibetan monestaries with many tulwars mounted on the walls. Certainly they have picked up over the centuries many arms from neighboring countries. The fact it was found in Tibet in the 1970's adds to the story a bit but one can certainly understand how it ended up there.

Salaams RSWORD ...I was following up a lead on Tibet....and I see you are also looking in that direction...It is interesting as I have seen the small floral shaped designs before on Portuguese Chests non of which I have left so no one would believe me...ha!

I present this single bit of evidence I stumbled upon today...of a Tibetan box.
A close resemblance to the main clasp style. see https://www.etsy.com/market/buddhist_hindu where it is advertised as a good fortune box ~ Chinese Buddhist Hindu ...which you could ascribe to Tibet.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Bob A · 8th September 2015, 04:31 PM

I'm vaguely reminded of cloud collar designs, which seem to have spread eastward from China, if I recall correctly. Tashkent designs, and some from Samarkand, carried this sort of motif. Of course, they're only a bit north of Tibet.

Jim McDougall · 8th September 2015, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams RSWORD ...I was following up a lead on Tibet....and I see you are also looking in that direction...It is interesting as I have seen the small floral shaped designs before on Portuguese Chests non of which I have left so no one would believe me...ha!

I present this single bit of evidence I stumbled upon today...of a Tibetan box.
A close resemblance to the main clasp style. see https://www.etsy.com/market/buddhist_hindu where it is advertised as a good fortune box ~ Chinese Buddhist Hindu ...which you could ascribe to Tibet.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Excellent supporting reference Ibrahiim. It is interesting to see how these often key decorative themes and motif are transferred and diffused widely in material culture of many diverse cultures and regions.
You say this design was on Portuguese chests, were these of Chinese or Oriental make for trade? or would they have been of Portuguese make using foreign designs?

RSWORD · 10th September 2015, 11:34 AM

Thanks everyone for your contributions.

1st September 2015, 12:34 PM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Interesting belt Looking for some thoughts as to origins of this interesting belt. Will provide some additional background after some discussion. Attached Images

4th September 2015, 08:58 PM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,730	Hi Rick, A really interesting belt if I may say so. Just a guess, but maybe Japanese due to the many Lotus shaped bits and emblems............. Possibly the slots on the two outer "joiners" could be used for hanging something? Stu

5th September 2015, 08:46 AM	#3
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,053	I would suggest North India heading towards Afghanistan Tibet and Central Asia. I am going by the hanger slots which are very Central Asian and the armoured-belt theme which you also see in Tibet and Bhutan. The studs remind me of some on an Afghan game pouch I once had. Buckles are not really common in the traditional Japanese repertoire and lotus is a decorative element used all through the east. Overall my money would be on Tibet or Bhutan for the origin of this piece. This is a very nice piece, thank you for sharing. Dave

5th September 2015, 07:31 PM	#4
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Thanks guys for the responses so far. The background I was holding a bit pending some discussion was the oral provenance of this item. The person I picked this up from stated he purchased this belt, along with a few other items I ended up with, from a Tibetan monestary. It does not follow any known example of Tibetan belt work and I tend to agree with the suggestion it could be from surrounding regions. I think India is a real possibility. In the book Tibetan arms and armour you see Tibetan monestaries with many tulwars mounted on the walls. Certainly they have picked up over the centuries many arms from neighboring countries. The fact it was found in Tibet in the 1970's adds to the story a bit but one can certainly understand how it ended up there.

8th September 2015, 04:31 PM	#6
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 414	I'm vaguely reminded of cloud collar designs, which seem to have spread eastward from China, if I recall correctly. Tashkent designs, and some from Samarkand, carried this sort of motif. Of course, they're only a bit north of Tibet.

10th September 2015, 11:34 AM	#8
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Thanks everyone for your contributions.