CONFEDERATE CIVIL WAR ANTIQUE BOWIE KNIFE-TENNESSEE

Robert · 18th February 2010, 01:08 AM

Well folks it looks like another ebay seller has done it again. Take a look at the description, this guy can really spin a tale!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT I bet someone is going to be really unhappy when they find out where their Johnnie Reb dagger is actually from.

Robert

David · 18th February 2010, 01:28 AM

It looks like you can make a bit of a killing in the Civil War market with Filipino knives....

Rick · 18th February 2010, 02:14 AM

'Twas ever thus, David .

I think Bernie Levine has a few thoughts on this subject on his site .

Battara · 18th February 2010, 04:59 AM

Yup. I have seen tons of PI daggers sold as either Spanish or Confederate.

Sad really.

Dimasalang · 18th February 2010, 05:46 AM

HAHA Imagine all the Filipino daggers with the "KKK" stamped on them that are misrepresented.

Bill · 18th February 2010, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimasalang

HAHA Imagine all the Filipino daggers with the "KKK" stamped on them that are misrepresented.

One of the largest exhibitors at the Milwaukee gun show has a very nice one, he is convinced it is one of the earliest Klan daggers.
I've explained to him what it is & made him good offers but he's convinced it's early Klan & wants several thousand.

Lew · 18th February 2010, 11:33 AM

At a show I saw a Moro budiak spear head listed as an American revoltionary war pike and the seller wanted thousands for it.

He was not happy when he found out what it really was.

Rick · 18th February 2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

One of the largest exhibitors at the Milwaukee gun show has a very nice one, he is convinced it is one of the earliest Klan daggers.
I've explained to him what it is & made him good offers but he's convinced it's early Klan & wants several thousand.

Faith is a wonderful thing in some cases; others, not so much .

You got to wonder how much he's got invested in that knife .

David · 18th February 2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

One of the largest exhibitors at the Milwaukee gun show has a very nice one, he is convinced it is one of the earliest Klan daggers.
I've explained to him what it is & made him good offers but he's convinced it's early Klan & wants several thousand.

I think Rick is right in that this guy probably invested way too much on this knife in his ignorance. Ignorance is bliss they say.
In this on-line information age in which we live there is really no excuse for this kind of blind ignorance though. Just direct him to this Wiki page next time you see him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katipunan

mross · 18th February 2010, 04:58 PM

Well, it's pretty clear it's not what it's advertised to be. It's always a good idea to buy the blade and not the story. That having been said it looks like a well made piece with some age to it. More than I would spend on it but not unreasonable.

David · 18th February 2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Well, it's pretty clear it's not what it's advertised to be. It's always a good idea to buy the blade and not the story. That having been said it looks like a well made piece with some age to it. More than I would spend on it but not unreasonable.

Well that is the problem here i think. We can't buy the blade because the assumed story prices it out of our market. Confederate Civil War items command an obscene amount of money at times. This is undoubtably a nice P.I. item (with some condition issues), but at that price i'm not going to touch it.

Robert · 18th February 2010, 05:39 PM

Yes, on the whole this is a very well made dagger, probably second quarter of the 20th century, though it could be earlier and just had new fittings added at a later date. What really makes me wonder about is what the buyer was thinking when he bought this dagger, did he buy it knowing it was from the Philippines, or did he buy the Civil War story? If he bought the story how much aluminum and water buffalo horn did he think was being used during the American Civil War era?

Take a close look at the band behind the guard and grip material and tell me what you think.

Robert

mross · 18th February 2010, 05:53 PM

The optimist in may says the buyer knew what they where buying. The pictures where decent. It would be intresting to make note of the transaction number keep and eye on the seller's feed back and see what transpires.

Robert · 18th February 2010, 06:01 PM

"It would be intresting to make note of the transaction number keep and eye on the seller's feed back and see what transpires."

I was already planning on doing just that.

Robert

Bill · 18th February 2010, 07:59 PM

Side-note, a recent episode of "Pawn Stars" had a fellow bring in a heavily engraved Confederate sword. Rick, the owner, immediately was concerned about it being too nice & called in an expert. The expert didn't find any "proof" it was a fake or enhanced but would not verify authenticity or recommend it's purchase just because of the amount of fakes or altered pieces now on the market.
Be interesting to see a "Klan" knife brought into the store & see if they immediately know what it is.

Battara · 18th February 2010, 10:06 PM

What sickens me is how these idiots don't do any research whatsoever and get angry when I inform them of the truth. I have since stopped wasting my time and have to let the idiots rot with their overly high priced purchase, even though I want it but can't afford it. No anger in this whatsoever!

Robert · 18th February 2010, 11:02 PM

Jose, I know what you mean. I had all intent of bidding on this when I first found it and sent a message to the seller to let him know what he had (I did NOT mention the fact that I was going to bid on it) but the information I offered was completely ignored. Like you, this was not the first time that I have offered help in identifying someone else's items just to be ignored and on one occasion very rudely told to mind my own business.

On the other hand I have been thanked and even had people change their listings. Being the perpetual optimist I don't seem have the good sense to stop.

Robert

Rick · 19th February 2010, 12:04 AM

I never contact Sellers anymore; gave that up about 6 years ago .

Total waste of time and effort; plus your good will and intentions .

We need a Financial Darwin Award for the biggest eBay Sucker every year .

*

*Of course as long as they're not forum members .....

Robert · 19th February 2010, 12:39 AM

Hello Rick,
If we do ever decide to have a Financial Darwin Award for forum members I nominate myself for that pair of klewangs SLO's that I purchased.

Robert

asomotif · 19th February 2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Take a close look at the band behind the guard and grip material and tell me what you think.

Webbing, right ?

The webbing hanger must be WW 2 period, not ?

Nice big bold looking dagger by the way, I can imagine that you buy the civil war story if you are not into Philipine stuff

Rick · 19th February 2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Webbing, right ?

The webbing hanger must be WW 2 period, not ?

Nice big bold looking dagger by the way, I can imagine that you buy the civil war story if you are not into Philipine stuff

And if you're not an experienced CW collector .
Education costs money .

It's a nice Philippine dagger, but I don't think any of us want to see these go for so much .

At least until we have stopped collecting .

Robert · 19th February 2010, 09:39 PM

Rick, You are right about it being a nice knife and about prices AFTER we quit collecting

I would have been happy to add this to my collection if the price had not gone through the roof because of mislabeling. The missing parts could have been replaced to make it whole again very easily. I thought that I would add a picture of the knife in question (auction picture) along with a picture of one that I have for comparison.

Robert

asomotif · 19th February 2010, 10:06 PM

Quote:

along with a picture of one that I have for comparison.

Robert, that is a nice one too. A Mexican Rebellion knife ?

Robert · 19th February 2010, 10:23 PM

"Robert, that is a nice one too. A Mexcian Rebellion knife ?"

No, This is a rare side knife from the war of 1812

Atlantia · 19th February 2010, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Rick, You are right about it being a nice knife and about prices AFTER we quit collecting

I would have been happy to add this to my collection if the price had not gone through the roof because of mislabeling. The missing parts could have been replaced to make it whole again very easily. I thought that I would add a picture of the knife in question (auction picture) along with a picture of one that I have for comparison.

Robert

These are rather interesting. Your straight quillion example looks like it has a strong Spanish influence? How thick is the blade Robert? Lovely example BTW.

Robert · 19th February 2010, 10:58 PM

Hello Gene,
Yes these show a very strong Spanish influence in their overall design. The triangular blade on my example is 1/4 inch thick at the guard. Like I said earlier, I would loved to have added the one from the auction to my collection.

Robert

Atlantia · 19th February 2010, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Hello Gene,
Yes these show a very strong Spanish influence in their overall design. The triangular blade on my example is 1/4 inch thick at the guard. Like I said earlier, I would loved to have added the one from the auction to my collection.

Robert

Hmmm, thats almost like a remounted lance head?
I'd much rather have yours than the one in the auction

Robert · 19th February 2010, 11:21 PM

Thank you Gene, I was extremely happy to have found this dagger when I did but it is always nice when you can add another example to your collection. This other old warrior needed some TLC to bring it back to life but it would have been well worth the effort.

Robert.

Rick · 20th February 2010, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Hello Rick,
If we do ever decide to have a Financial Darwin Award for forum members I nominate myself for that pair of klewangs SLO's that I purchased.

Robert

I guess those turned out to be Shaver Cool relatives .

If that's the worst you have done you're nowhere in the competition .

Ask me about the misplaced decimal point sometime ....

Robert · 20th February 2010, 02:13 AM

"Ask me about the misplaced decimal point sometime"

OK, Now you've got me interested.

Tell me about the decimal point.

Robert

18th February 2010, 01:08 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	CONFEDERATE CIVIL WAR ANTIQUE BOWIE KNIFE-TENNESSEE Well folks it looks like another ebay seller has done it again. Take a look at the description, this guy can really spin a tale!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT I bet someone is going to be really unhappy when they find out where their Johnnie Reb dagger is actually from. Robert

18th February 2010, 05:39 PM	#12
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Yes, on the whole this is a very well made dagger, probably second quarter of the 20th century, though it could be earlier and just had new fittings added at a later date. What really makes me wonder about is what the buyer was thinking when he bought this dagger, did he buy it knowing it was from the Philippines, or did he buy the Civil War story? If he bought the story how much aluminum and water buffalo horn did he think was being used during the American Civil War era? Take a close look at the band behind the guard and grip material and tell me what you think. Robert Last edited by Robert Coleman; 18th February 2010 at 05:58 PM.

19th February 2010, 09:39 PM	#22
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Rick, You are right about it being a nice knife and about prices AFTER we quit collecting I would have been happy to add this to my collection if the price had not gone through the roof because of mislabeling. The missing parts could have been replaced to make it whole again very easily. I thought that I would add a picture of the knife in question (auction picture) along with a picture of one that I have for comparison. Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 19th February 2010 at 09:54 PM.

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18th February 2010, 01:28 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	It looks like you can make a bit of a killing in the Civil War market with Filipino knives....

18th February 2010, 02:14 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	'Twas ever thus, David . I think Bernie Levine has a few thoughts on this subject on his site .

18th February 2010, 04:59 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Yup. I have seen tons of PI daggers sold as either Spanish or Confederate. Sad really.

18th February 2010, 05:46 AM	#5
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	HAHA Imagine all the Filipino daggers with the "KKK" stamped on them that are misrepresented.

18th February 2010, 11:33 AM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	At a show I saw a Moro budiak spear head listed as an American revoltionary war pike and the seller wanted thousands for it. He was not happy when he found out what it really was.

18th February 2010, 04:58 PM	#10
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Well, it's pretty clear it's not what it's advertised to be. It's always a good idea to buy the blade and not the story. That having been said it looks like a well made piece with some age to it. More than I would spend on it but not unreasonable.

18th February 2010, 05:53 PM	#13
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	The optimist in may says the buyer knew what they where buying. The pictures where decent. It would be intresting to make note of the transaction number keep and eye on the seller's feed back and see what transpires.

18th February 2010, 06:01 PM	#14
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	"It would be intresting to make note of the transaction number keep and eye on the seller's feed back and see what transpires." I was already planning on doing just that. Robert

18th February 2010, 07:59 PM	#15
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Side-note, a recent episode of "Pawn Stars" had a fellow bring in a heavily engraved Confederate sword. Rick, the owner, immediately was concerned about it being too nice & called in an expert. The expert didn't find any "proof" it was a fake or enhanced but would not verify authenticity or recommend it's purchase just because of the amount of fakes or altered pieces now on the market. Be interesting to see a "Klan" knife brought into the store & see if they immediately know what it is.

18th February 2010, 10:06 PM	#16
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	What sickens me is how these idiots don't do any research whatsoever and get angry when I inform them of the truth. I have since stopped wasting my time and have to let the idiots rot with their overly high priced purchase, even though I want it but can't afford it. No anger in this whatsoever!

18th February 2010, 11:02 PM	#17
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Jose, I know what you mean. I had all intent of bidding on this when I first found it and sent a message to the seller to let him know what he had (I did NOT mention the fact that I was going to bid on it) but the information I offered was completely ignored. Like you, this was not the first time that I have offered help in identifying someone else's items just to be ignored and on one occasion very rudely told to mind my own business. On the other hand I have been thanked and even had people change their listings. Being the perpetual optimist I don't seem have the good sense to stop. Robert

19th February 2010, 12:04 AM	#18
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	I never contact Sellers anymore; gave that up about 6 years ago . Total waste of time and effort; plus your good will and intentions . We need a Financial Darwin Award for the biggest eBay Sucker every year . * *Of course as long as they're not forum members .....

19th February 2010, 12:39 AM	#19
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Rick, If we do ever decide to have a Financial Darwin Award for forum members I nominate myself for that pair of klewangs SLO's that I purchased. Robert

19th February 2010, 10:23 PM	#24
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	"Robert, that is a nice one too. A Mexcian Rebellion knife ?" No, This is a rare side knife from the war of 1812

19th February 2010, 10:58 PM	#26
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Gene, Yes these show a very strong Spanish influence in their overall design. The triangular blade on my example is 1/4 inch thick at the guard. Like I said earlier, I would loved to have added the one from the auction to my collection. Robert

19th February 2010, 11:21 PM	#28
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Thank you Gene, I was extremely happy to have found this dagger when I did but it is always nice when you can add another example to your collection. This other old warrior needed some TLC to bring it back to life but it would have been well worth the effort. Robert.

20th February 2010, 02:13 AM	#30
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	"Ask me about the misplaced decimal point sometime" OK, Now you've got me interested. Tell me about the decimal point. Robert