Hand made sword, wondering about origin

Ken Maddock · 31st July 2015, 11:13 PM

Hi all
Below is a thread I started on European armoury
It was suggested the sword might have an ethnic origin so any information gratefully accepted

Picked this item up last night and am very interested in opinions
It is 25 inches long with a blade of 21 inches
Blade is nice and springy, grip has definite age and well made, fits well into the hand. Guard is made of brass and nicely shaped, peening well done and definite age, overall no markings what so ever
Definitely not a school play item as the edge is v sharp and nicely balanced.
Looks to be folding flaws on the blade where the lamination is failed, I have tried to photo these but can try again tomorrow if they do not come out.

I would not be one to clean items but I might give it a rub of a damp cloth if information might be gleaned.

Shaping of blade only on one side with no fuller but has central spine running down to edge fully on one side and top third on other side
Story is, found bricked into wall in v old house in Ireland.
Has the look of some of weapons I have seen home manufactured for irish rebels in 1798 rebellion and later, maybe me being romantic but you have to dream
Any taughts or opinions?
Best regards
Ken

Ken Maddock · 31st July 2015, 11:14 PM

Sorry one more image showing peening

Battara · 1st August 2015, 06:25 PM

This looks like it is a Filipino piece from around the beginning of the 20th century, from Luzon Island in the Philippines (showing the Spanish influence). May be even from the Tagalogs on Luzon.

Ian · 1st August 2015, 07:57 PM

Jose:

Those were my thoughts too when I first looked at the pics. Spanish-influenced hilt, probably Filipino in origin. Perhaps further pics will define the origins better.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

This looks like it is a Filipino piece from around the beginning of the 20th century, from Luzon Island in the Philippines (showing the Spanish influence). May be even from the Tagalogs on Luzon.

Jim McDougall · 1st August 2015, 08:12 PM

I am with the others in considering possible Philippine origin for this item.
For me the knuckleguard with strap over pommel corresponds to many of the Spanish colonial forms deriving from espada ancha and evolved into Philippine versions. The crude nature of course suggests typical colonial ersatz type weapons, and the blade reminds me of the 'talibon' types from the Phiippines (though my exposure to these weapons is admittedly limited).

While it is tempting to link this to events such as the Irish Rebellion noted in 1798 based on the context in which it was found, these other possibilities should be considered as well. This rebellion was most certainly the source for any number of weapons from tools and implements to any number of ersatz fashioned arms, it would take other similar and provenanced examples to support the attribution.

The link to the bronze age sword said to have been used by one of these Irish men in this rebellion is sensational and intriguing, and well illustrates the often desperate innovation which would be employed during such intense events.

Sajen · 1st August 2015, 10:25 PM

Luzon is a good guess, I've seen many similar ones from there but most of the time the hilts have been from horn.

31st July 2015, 11:13 PM	#1
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	Hand made sword, wondering about origin Hi all Below is a thread I started on European armoury It was suggested the sword might have an ethnic origin so any information gratefully accepted Picked this item up last night and am very interested in opinions It is 25 inches long with a blade of 21 inches Blade is nice and springy, grip has definite age and well made, fits well into the hand. Guard is made of brass and nicely shaped, peening well done and definite age, overall no markings what so ever Definitely not a school play item as the edge is v sharp and nicely balanced. Looks to be folding flaws on the blade where the lamination is failed, I have tried to photo these but can try again tomorrow if they do not come out. I would not be one to clean items but I might give it a rub of a damp cloth if information might be gleaned. Shaping of blade only on one side with no fuller but has central spine running down to edge fully on one side and top third on other side Story is, found bricked into wall in v old house in Ireland. Has the look of some of weapons I have seen home manufactured for irish rebels in 1798 rebellion and later, maybe me being romantic but you have to dream Any taughts or opinions? Best regards Ken Attached Images

31st July 2015, 11:14 PM	#2
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	Sorry one more image showing peening Attached Images

1st August 2015, 06:25 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	This looks like it is a Filipino piece from around the beginning of the 20th century, from Luzon Island in the Philippines (showing the Spanish influence). May be even from the Tagalogs on Luzon.

1st August 2015, 08:12 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,767	I am with the others in considering possible Philippine origin for this item. For me the knuckleguard with strap over pommel corresponds to many of the Spanish colonial forms deriving from espada ancha and evolved into Philippine versions. The crude nature of course suggests typical colonial ersatz type weapons, and the blade reminds me of the 'talibon' types from the Phiippines (though my exposure to these weapons is admittedly limited). While it is tempting to link this to events such as the Irish Rebellion noted in 1798 based on the context in which it was found, these other possibilities should be considered as well. This rebellion was most certainly the source for any number of weapons from tools and implements to any number of ersatz fashioned arms, it would take other similar and provenanced examples to support the attribution. The link to the bronze age sword said to have been used by one of these Irish men in this rebellion is sensational and intriguing, and well illustrates the often desperate innovation which would be employed during such intense events.

1st August 2015, 10:25 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,516	Luzon is a good guess, I've seen many similar ones from there but most of the time the hilts have been from horn.